Be Bullish, 9 year old warrior at 995k lifetime.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

K mac and a few others here suggesting its a business, so no, you race till you drop, if the horse falls in a heap and dies, oh well, too bad according to them.

You sure paint K Mac out to be a heartless bastard when you speak for him. I'm not sure that is what he is saying.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by cj

If a horse is sound at 10, I have no problem with them being raced. It is when they start to plunge and are trying to be dumped that it gets ugly.

I wish we had confidence that Racing, and Vet Exams would save a plunging horse with obvious physical issues from an over-zealous trainer.

We should ask questions such as whether past a certain age(8?), a horse should be scrutinized more by the veterinarians and the racing jurisdictions.

Do earnings come into play at all? Does an 8yo with a million in earnings in New York, deserve better than an 8yo with 100K in Louisiana?

Should ALL horses receive good vet exams and common sense safeguards? (regardless of age or popularity)

Is the claiming game as it now exists viable with such safeguards??


I don't know the answers.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

You sure paint K Mac out to be a heartless bastard when you speak for him. I'm not sure that is what he is saying.

Either your mindset is its a business, or its not always a business and you do right by the horse once in a while, even if it goes against sound business practices.

He seemed to be not only sticking up for Jacobson, but doing it in a passionate and in your face kind of way...almost as if he was Jacobson's relative or barn foreman. So, when you show that kind of passion, its hard for me to believe that even one inch of you cares about the welfare of the horses, as long as a smart business decision is made.

If he cares about the horses, would he be so passionate defending DJ?

Maybe he can clear up his feelings on this, but that's what i got out of it.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

I wish we had confidence that Racing, and Vet Exams would save a plunging horse with obvious physical issues from an over-zealous trainer.

We should ask questions such as whether past a certain age(8?), a horse should be scrutinized more by the veterinarians and the racing jurisdictions.

Do earnings come into play at all? Does an 8yo with a million in earnings in New York, deserve better than an 8yo with 100K in Louisiana?

Should ALL horses receive good vet exams and common sense safeguards? (regardless of age or popularity)

Is the claiming game as it now exists viable with such safeguards??


I don't know the answers.

Earnings and age don't matter, its the massive class drops that sound the alarm bells. If that old horse is going from 20 to 40, like Be Bullish today, maybe all is well. If a horse is claimed for 40 or 50 and shows up a few weeks later at Suffolk for 5k, that's probably the horse that should be more scrutinized.

[EMD4ME]

Proud of the bull today. Very proud. Hope he survives DJ

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Proud of the bull today. Very proud. Hope he survives DJ

Yeah, that was special, and gutty. Horses like this: backbone of the game. I'd hate to see an easily replaceable human, that the game wouldn't miss at all, putting an animal who the game WOULD miss in harms way. Lets hope he does the right thing, but i wouldn't hold my breath.

[kmac1470]

Let me try and set the record straight on my comments....

1) The closest I've been to Aqueduct was a weekend with my wife in Ottawa in November

2) I don't know David Jacobson and wouldn't know him if he walked up and kissed my ass....although I would probably remember him after that

3) I have been an owner and horseplayer on a B circuit for close to 40 years. I have had horses that you stop with and retire because the consequences of not doing so are too dire. I've had horses win after their ankles have been tapped and I've had them come back from their next race too sore to go on with. It isn't an exact science.

4) Go For Wand upset me...so did Waveland Avenue at Hollywood Park in 2008, and Night to Remember at Woodbine in 1997 and every other breakdown I've seen over the years

5) I do agree that if Be Bullish shows up in a $5,000 race somewhere that is not right. That wasn't the case today. By my observation he looked pretty happy doing what he was doing and he did it pretty easily. If he starts to go bad I hope there is a white knight standing by to take him. But I don't know how you can blame a trainer for winning $35,000 by open lengths because you are afraid that the old guy might take a bad step.

6) Moody Jolley said it best...This is not a game for people in short pants

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by kmac1470

Let me try and set the record straight on my comments....

1) The closest I've been to Aqueduct was a weekend with my wife in Ottawa in November

2) I don't know David Jacobson and wouldn't know him if he walked up and kissed my ass....although I would probably remember him after that

3) I have been an owner and horseplayer on a B circuit for close to 40 years. I have had horses that you stop with and retire because the consequences of not doing so are too dire. I've had horses win after their ankles have been tapped and I've had them come back from their next race too sore to go on with. It isn't an exact science.

4) Go For Wand upset me...so did Waveland Avenue at Hollywood Park in 2008, and Night to Remember at Woodbine in 1997 and every other breakdown I've seen over the years

5) I do agree that if Be Bullish shows up in a $5,000 race somewhere that is not right. That wasn't the case today. By my observation he looked pretty happy doing what he was doing and he did it pretty easily. If he starts to go bad I hope there is a white knight standing by to take him. But I don't know how you can blame a trainer for winning $35,000 by open lengths because you are afraid that the old guy might take a bad step.

6) Moody Jolley said it best...This is not a game for people in short pants

Good post Mac.

We're not blaming him for winning, i think we're discussing the breakdowns and if some of them could have been avoided.
Also discussing at what point do you stop on the horse? We haven't seen Jacobson stop on too many horses, if any.

You say if Bullish shows up for 5k that's not right...but that's what we're essentially discussing with DJ, we are discussing the "showing up for 5" stuff, he's done a LOT of that in the last couple years.

[cutchemist42]

Yeah to me, this is not the typical DJ horse we hate, this is obviously a sound horse in respectable race that did not scream breakdown.

[SaratogaSteve]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Good post Mac.

We're not blaming him for winning, i think we're discussing the breakdowns and if some of them could have been avoided.
Also discussing at what point do you stop on the horse? We haven't seen Jacobson stop on too many horses, if any.

You say if Bullish shows up for 5k that's not right...but that's what we're essentially discussing with DJ, we are discussing the "showing up for 5" stuff, he's done a LOT of that in the last couple years.

translation: the horse won for fun, so we called off the persecution.

What do you say if does take a bad step pulling up after winning?

This was never a thread about a severe dropper. Be Bullish is not a case where he's going to Parx or Maryland dropping in for 5k. Not today, and not ever. Jacobson isn't the best judge of valuing horseflesh, and I wouldn't send my horses to him. But the armchair veterinarians here are too much.

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by SaratogaSteve

translation: the horse won for fun, so we called off the persecution.

What do you say if does take a bad step pulling up after winning?

This was never a thread about a severe dropper. Be Bullish is not a case where he's going to Parx or Maryland dropping in for 5k. Not today, and not ever. Jacobson isn't the best judge of valuing horseflesh, and I wouldn't send my horses to him. But the armchair veterinarians here are too much.

He dropped to 16,000 . He could well have ended up somewhere else .
That was the red flag many folks were concerned about for this veteran .
He looked good yesterday and I'm happy he's ok .

Still someday hope to see him in a new career , maybe a pony at the track .

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally Posted by VeryOldMan

This is the issue with the sport - do we owe anything to these warriors?

Jacobson is a very canny judge of horseflesh. No question. Do we owe the underlying horses anything? That's the part that gets me.

We owe it all to the warriors,If not for them,We wouldnt be talking about this.Warriors are very "special" horses who deserve the respect of making it thu the toughest test of time.I have had several of these guys and am humbled to have them in my barn.The 2 wonderful guys that I had ,I retired them at the first hint of them telling me,It was time.Sure we miss them but to know they went out in style and can run and live like a horse again in a field makes it all worth it....God Bless them all.

[VeryOldMan]

Originally Posted by McSchell_Racing

We owe it all to the warriors,If not for them,We wouldnt be talking about this.Warriors are very "special" horses who deserve the respect of making it thu the toughest test of time.I have had several of these guys and am humbled to have them in my barn.The 2 wonderful guys that I had ,I retired them at the first hint of them telling me,It was time.Sure we miss them but to know they went out in style and can run and live like a horse again in a field makes it all worth it....God Bless them all.

Great post -thanks for the response. A big amen from here.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by SaratogaSteve

translation: the horse won for fun, so we called off the persecution.

What do you say if does take a bad step pulling up after winning?

This was never a thread about a severe dropper. Be Bullish is not a case where he's going to Parx or Maryland dropping in for 5k. Not today, and not ever. Jacobson isn't the best judge of valuing horseflesh, and I wouldn't send my horses to him. But the armchair veterinarians here are too much.

Plenty of DJ horses showed up at Suffolk, Parx, Monmouth, etc for 5k, why would you say "not today not ever"? Unless you own the horse, you can't say what is going to happen. As far as armchair vets go, nobody here is professing to be a vet, you don't have to be a genius to see that a horse who was running for big money in NY (not Be Bullish Specifically of course) and now he's in for 5k at Suffolk is there for a reason and the reason isnt that he's in "peak form". That has nothing to do with "armchair vets".

[Rise Over Run]

Be Bullish is nominated to defend his 2014 win in next Sunday's (1/18) Hollie Hughes for NY Breds. $100k purse.

This is like the DJ Fairy Tale. He runs everything out of him and finally drops to the $16k level where Repole jumps in out of the goodness of his heart to claim the old warrior. Repole and company find out he's still sound and a runner, just needs some R&R time. After the R&R Repole and co run him for $20k and win, and somehow DJ is there to pick him back up. He wins at $40k for DJ (no claims) and will likely be one of the favorites to win the Hollie Hughes, yet again.

I'm sure he has dreams about claims working out like this all the time.