BRIS speed ratings

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Tom

I'm talking about how much a point of SR is worth. I sit .13, .16? .2?

Isn't that going to change from day to day depending on the track variant? In your example, a 6f race at 1.11.1 had a speed figure of 98. That same final time on another day might get a speed figure of 96 if the track was faster that day.

[Tom]

No, it won't change.
A SR point is worth X
In Quirin, 1 point is 1/5 of a second for final time, 1/10 second is 1 point for pace calls.

This is what I want to fill in, so I can then see what each point equals.

[Light]

Originally Posted by Tom

I'm talking about how much a point of SR is worth. I sit .13, .16? .2?

So you don't believe me when I said its worth .1 (one tenth of a second)? Why not?

[Tom]

Because when you look at the data, it doesn't work.
If you use .1 in my worksheet, which winners times and SR for the same day, the RED is what you get.
I wish it were .1 - it make life easier.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Tom

Because when you look at the data, it doesn't work.
If you use .1 in my worksheet, which winners times and SR for the same day, the RED is what you get.
I wish it were .1 - it make life easier.

Based on those it is around .135 hundredths of a second per point at that distance. A few more points might narrow it down a little, but it won't matter much.

[Tom]

That is what I get, but on other days, I get different values.
I have to assume some are due to spit variants, but sometimes, if I get 3-4 races on the same card, the variation is a lot. Enough to put doubt in my mind.

[Light]

I have no idea what your chart means or where its from. But you asked how much 1 speed point is worth using Bris and if you look at tandem races in their PP's you will see over and over again that if a horse loses to another horse by 1/2 length, they get 1 point off their SR. And it has a value of .1. If they lose by 1 length they get 2 points off their SR's and it has a value of .2 tenths or 1/5. That's the facts, period. Whether or not its accurate or what you are trying to do, is a different issue. But your original question has been answered.

[Tom]

Light, you are talking about beaten lengths. I am talking about time.
If 112 gets a 96, what does112.1 get? 111.3? 109.4?

Race 1 today goes in 112. What SR does it get?
RAce 2 goes in 113. What SR does it get?

That chart is actual aces at Monmouth and the SR those race times earned.

[HUSKER55]

If I understand your problem right,...

You could make a raw time only parallel time chart. It is my understanding that published speed fig have several variances built in so I have no idea how you could determine that part but perhaps that would solve your problem.

just trying to help...

[Light]

Originally Posted by Tom

Light, you are talking about beaten lengths. I am talking about time.
If 112 gets a 96, what does112.1 get? 111.3? 109.4?

I already equated beaten lengths,time and sr's used by Bris.

To answer your question above, The horse with a 112.1 (assuming that is tenths) will get a 95 if the 112 for that day at the same 6f distance got
a 96. I already said how and why twice. This isn't rocket science.

[Tom]

Light, look at that chart I put up - that is the SR scale, along with 4 6F races on the same day next to the SR that time got.

69.96 got a SR of 89.
71.26 got a SR of 79.

There are no beaten lengths.
These are two winners on the same day.
71.26-69.96 = 1.3, or 13 tenths.
But the difference in SR points is 10.

That contradicts your example, right?
I am not trying to be argumentative here. It is close to .1, but using .1 or .135 is a big difference - 35%.

[Tom]

Here a few more examples.
All of these 5 samples are from a single day of racing, at 6 furlongs.
The SR is first, the time rounded down to a 10th is next to it.
All are the winner's times and SR, no beaten length adjustments.

[TexasDolly]

Originally Posted by Tom

Here a few more examples.
All of these 5 samples are from a single day of racing, at 6 furlongs.
The SR is first, the time rounded down to a 10th is next to it.
All are the winner's times and SR, no beaten length adjustments.

Hi Tom,
Just to make sure I understand ; the 1st race and the 4th races both went in 71.5 and the 1st had a SR of 87 and the 4th had
a SR of 97 ? What could be going on to justify a 10 point difference in your opinion ? I am puzzled frankly.
TD

[Light]

It's no surprise to me that the numbers don't come out as Bris would have you think. I was just explaining what they supposedly do.

I just randomly checked Aqu on 1/1/14. They had 3 6f races that day.

The first was in 12.03 and the winner got a 99

The next was in 13.8 and the winner got an 81. This is right on the money correct using 1 SR point for each .1 of time (compared to the first race).

The 3rd was in 11.88 and got a 96! A faster time than the first race but a lower SR!

Obviously they are doing something they're not telling. I have called them in the past on things like this and you get nowhere.

For me the figs do not have to be that precise, just in the ballpark. My main concern is will the horse put out an effort today or not because it makes the numbers irrelevant if he won't.

My most recent beef with Bris was their Class pars listed in the upper corner. It changes with time which can be as short as a week. Calling them was a dead end. So I had to determine for myself which of the various pars they list for a specific class is actually correct. The way I did this was amassing the data for each specific class at a specific track into an excel spreadsheet and finding out for myself.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by TexasDolly

Hi Tom,
Just to make sure I understand ; the 1st race and the 4th races both went in 71.5 and the 1st had a SR of 87 and the 4th had
a SR of 97 ? What could be going on to justify a 10 point difference in your opinion ? I am puzzled frankly.
TD

No, each set of numbers is one day - and the 6 furlong races I could find in my DB. Five different days. I have to use one day at a time because the variants will be different. I am only looking for the differences in that day to get the value of a point of SR. So the two races with the same time are from different days with different variants.