Can only whip 3 times...

[Robert Fischer]

Efficacy of whip use varies.
Both with individual jockeys and horses.

I see a lot of weakening horses that appear to actually finish more poorly in response to the whip than they would under a strong balanced hand-urging. They often appear to shy away from the whip, losing a straight path, as well quit sooner.

Often horses that appear to respond well to the whip also happen to have good late energy in general. It's a little bit difficult to tell how much a strong-finisher is being aided by a whip when he already has good energy and is into a drive, while his rivals are spent and coming back to him.

Then there is the "stubborn" or "herd" runner, who although less common, probably does clearly respond to the cue of the encouragement.

[rastajenk]

My initial reaction is that it's an appeasement to those who will never be appeased.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

My initial reaction is that it's an appeasement to those who will never be appeased.

You know, I'm not that big into animal rights (I suppose I wouldn't like horse racing if I were), but the history of these sorts of social movements is directly contrary to what you are saying. Taking a hard line tends to increase the risk that you lose everything. We are seeing that right now with gay marriage, where conservative opposition to any form of gay rights whatsoever (they didn't even support the repeal of sodomy laws) has left them out of the conversation as the gay rights side rings up victory after victory on its way to the almost certainty of gay marriage throughout much of the world.

But this has happened in the past, dating all the way back to the way the South gambled everything to preserve a maximal position on the expansion of slavery in the face of Lincoln's election. They lost, big, and paid.

Animal rights movements are going to gain adherents over time. And horse racing already has made appropriate concessions in its history. Do you miss the spur? It was eliminated from horse racing in the 1950's and 1960's. Making the sport less abusive to animals, over time, is necessary to prevent a serious movement towards abolition, especially since the great state interest in the sport's continued existence (its monopoly on legal gambling) has been eroded so much.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

EDIT: This reminds me of a quick Trevor Denman story about whipping. A lot of you like the Tom Durkin call of the Holy Bull-Concern Travers. Del Mar had a nightly replay show back in the day, which Trevor hosted, and he showed that race on the Saturday night show on the day it was run. After showing the race, he didn't talk about what a great race it was-- he lit into the jockeys (Smith and Bailey) for punishing their horses with the whip. He thought that was exactly the sort of spectacle that would energize animal rights advocates in going after the sport.

Oh how right he was... the 1994 Travers is widely referenced as a black-eye on the sport.

Trevor has always bellyached about whip use. He has even incorporated it into a few of his own race calls.. He never liked watching Nakatani get after Sharp Cat with the whip and made sure to comment on it during the stretch run..

[zico20]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

Dave Gall should be in the Hall of Fame.

Without a doubt he should be in the Hall of Fame. Here is just one reason why. For a decade or so Pat Day would come down to Fairmount a few times a year and ride a big named horse from Chicago, which was always the heavy favorite. Gall would always have a mount on a long shot and he beat Day way more times than he should. I was only a kid at the time so my memory isn't the best but Gall out rode Day just about every single time, even when he lost. Simply amazing. Of course though, I was never a Pat Day fan.

[Mr_Ed]

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

The old Atari home video game (early 80's) allowed 5 whippings.

Had to be strategic.

Late 70's...early 80's.....very primitive (but fun):

[Mr_Ed]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Lmao..... do you remember the horse racing game (can't remember the name of the game) on the intellivision product?

I believe it had a similar cap. If you whipped too much, too early, your horse would understandably tire to a walk.

Fun times, those 80's

A very early intellivision:

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

A very early intellivision:

OMG , I miiiiiiiiiiss those days and that game! Thanks for the memories!

[letswastemoney]

If you want a decent, modern racing game, try Gallop Racer for the PS2.

In that game, after the first few cracks whipping has no effect as well. It just makes the horse angry.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

If you want a decent, modern racing game, try Gallop Racer for the PS2.

In that game, after the first few cracks whipping has no effect as well. It just makes the horse angry.

Are there any games which involve handicapping and nothing else?

I don't want to be a jockey or an owner.... just wondering.

Thank you

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by luisbe

In Woo has been mandatory at least for the last 3 years, including a lighter whip.
Let's be clear because I've read some misleading posts: whipping allowed just 3 times, AT A TIME.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate on this and define "at a time"..
Thanks

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by thespaah

Would you be so kind as to elaborate on this and define "at a time"..
Thanks

Have you read the rule? It pretty much says that a jock can use the whip three times in immediate succession, after which he has to see forward movement from the horse to carry on. So if a jock thinks the whip is going to help, he can try it three times.

The way I read is if the horse has forward movement against his competition use of the whip is not penalized.

So basically if a jock is wailing away on his mount and not passing anyone or even moving backwards he can be penalized. Again I see no reason to think this is not a good thing.

[Stillriledup]

The only thing i care about is NOT getting disqualified because my jock broke the whip rules and i haven't heard if the judges will be altering placings due to excessive whipping.

Anyone know?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Are there any games which involve handicapping and nothing else?

I don't want to be a jockey or an owner.... just wondering.

Thank you

Funny..I'm just the opposite. I do the handicapping thing real and live...so have no use for a game.

What I don't do is riding/training/owning...that's the kind of simulation I would enjoy more.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

Have you read the rule? It pretty much says that a jock can use the whip three times in immediate succession, after which he has to see forward movement from the horse to carry on. So if a jock thinks the whip is going to help, he can try it three times.

The way I read is if the horse has forward movement against his competition use of the whip is not penalized.

So basically if a jock is wailing away on his mount and not passing anyone or even moving backwards he can be penalized. Again I see no reason to think this is not a good thing.

Yeah, I read it but did not quite understand it.
Now that ( your description) makes more sense..
So if the rider gives up to three cracks in the stretch and his mount is still moving forwardly, it's within the rules if farther down to the wire he may still use the whip to strike the horse?