On track 5% less takeout

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by proximity

sometimes i think of just going back to the start and only playing my home track. unfortunately that is penn national and some of the cards (like saturday night) have been terrible.

Oh my god, you just gave me many memories.

I grew up at Penn as a kid. Moved to NY many years ago but made trips to Penn once a month for years with my girlfriend. Had the best times sitting at the finish line in the dining area. Believe it or not, I also loved the product. Once made 10,000 going 8/9 on their live races.

I was there live when they announced that the slot referendum was approved. The place blew into a frenzy. I was the only one booing. I told anyone would listen, it's the worst thing for the horseplayer .

I made 2 visits post slots. I was so disgusted. Never went back all this time. The races have totally sucked too. Curse those damn slots.

[Maximillion]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Oh my god, you just gave me many memories.

I grew up at Penn as a kid. Moved to NY many years ago but made trips to Penn once a month for years with my girlfriend. Had the best times sitting at the finish line in the dining area. Believe it or not, I also loved the product. Once made 10,000 going 8/9 on their live races.

I was there live when they announced that the slot referendum was approved. The place blew into a frenzy. I was the only one booing. I told anyone would listen, it's the worst thing for the horseplayer .

I made 2 visits post slots. I was so disgusted. Never went back all this time. The races have totally sucked too. Curse those damn slots.

I can only speak of the last 2 years when I started betting this track.

Yes,there are many (very) weak races there,but from an overall form standpoint ,I personally dont see this track as any more "suspicious" (and maybe even less so) than any other.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by EMD4ME

Forgive me if this has been threaded before.

Has anyone pushed the idea of creating 5% less takeout if you bet on track? With on track handle being ballpark 10% of total handle at ABC RACETRACK (could be more, could be less) and most racetracks getting just the signal fee, doesn't it make sense to offer 5% less takeout if you are on track?

Of course, that will reduce profit for the existing money that is being bet on track regardless but with aggressive marketing, the new on track money that was being bet with a foreign (not the track's ADW) ADW (and only making the signal fee) will create huge profitable gains for the racetrack involved. (go from 3-7% per dollar wagered as profit to 15% to 25% per dollar wagered minus the bonus given).

I know Delaware tried it but maybe they weren't the right market for it. Maybe NYRA can do it or Stronach with 1 or more of his tracks?

Thoughts?

I think you greatly overestimate how much money would be changed from ADWs to ontrack bets. Your target audience would be players who live a reasonable driving distance to the track and are now betting at home through an ADW. The incentive would have to be enough to cover the time and expense of going to the track and the missed opportunities of closely watching other tracks.

I currently live about 40 miles from Del Mar. For me it would mean driving roughly 2 hours, paying for parking and admission. So if I bet $200 to win on a 3-1 horse I would get back roughly $820.00 compared to $800.00 if I bet at home. Not exactly a game changer.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by AndyC

I think you greatly overestimate how much money would be changed from ADWs to ontrack bets. Your target audience would be players who live a reasonable driving distance to the track and are now betting at home through an ADW. The incentive would have to be enough to cover the time and expense of going to the track and the missed opportunities of closely watching other tracks.

I currently live about 40 miles from Del Mar. For me it would mean driving roughly 2 hours, paying for parking and admission. So if I bet $200 to win on a 3-1 horse I would get back roughly $820.00 compared to $800.00 if I bet at home. Not exactly a game changer.

Is there an echo in here?
I concur. The track would have to make it worthwhile financially to encourage those betting remotely to go to the track.
Not only would they have to use the 5% as an attraction, throw in parking admission and program as well.
I believe the trade off would be a minimum of $200 worth of action for the day.
Perhaps a purchase of a $100 voucher good only THAT day.
This would help offset the higher payoffs and the other concessions.
Of these are what are called "Ideas"....Something sorely lacking in the offices occupied by racetrack managements.

[Robert Goren]

I have long thought that most tracks don't want more people at the track. I think they want them betting over the net. Fewer costs that way.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I have long thought that most tracks don't want more people at the track. I think they want them betting over the net. Fewer costs that way.

Not if you factor in the costs paid to the ADWs.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by thespaah

Is there an echo in here?
I concur. The track would have to make it worthwhile financially to encourage those betting remotely to go to the track.
Not only would they have to use the 5% as an attraction, throw in parking admission and program as well.
I believe the trade off would be a minimum of $200 worth of action for the day.
Perhaps a purchase of a $100 voucher good only THAT day.
This would help offset the higher payoffs and the other concessions.
Of these are what are called "Ideas"....Something sorely lacking in the offices occupied by racetrack managements.

I don't think racing lives or dies with what happens at the track. With roughly 90% of the handle coming from offtrack it would seem that a logical strategy would be to keep and grow that segment.

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by AndyC

With roughly 90% of the handle coming from offtrack it would seem that a logical strategy would be to keep and grow that segment.

Yeah, you would think, hunh ?....

[cj]

After spending a week at Del Mar, they may as well make the on track takeout 50%. That crowd just doesn't care. It really is entertainment for the vast majority. It is the ADW segment that needs to be focused on.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by AndyC

I don't think racing lives or dies with what happens at the track. With roughly 90% of the handle coming from offtrack it would seem that a logical strategy would be to keep and grow that segment.

Do not think anyone claims it does. Does that mean you do no want to promote the live aspect of racing which many of us grew up with. I understand that if you are working or play 4 tracks a day that spending the day at your local track isn't really something you really want to or can do(it is easier from home or office), but the entertainment value of this sport is something worth promoting. Plenty of recreational bettors might find it a lot more fun to go to the track and watch the races live, see the horses in the paddock and up close and get into the sport a lot more with the excitement of a live crowd(of more than 7 people). Barn tours etc are a nice touch. Racing has already excluded small recreational bettors with any rebates of substance so why would you not want to give them a chance to get some of the "rebates" that 90% of you guys would quit the game if you weren't getting and at the same time be strategic about using them as rewards to bring customers back and build an on track customer base?

When you go to an entertainment venue, you pay. About $15 a head to see a movie these days. How about a baseball game, basketball game, football game. What is Disneyland/Disneyword these days about $100 bucks a head. Do people not drive 30 or 40 minutes to these venues? Can they not watch their local team on tv?

I am not claiming this will save racing (they are already unwilling to do the one thing that will save racing) but it certainly is better than sitting on your hands and relishing the status quo.

[dirty moose]

You guys all have great ideas! Too bad the tracks don't care about us or our ideas. I know for sure, I'd visit the track more often if this was the case.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

Do not think anyone claims it does. Does that mean you do no want to promote the live aspect of racing which many of us grew up with. I understand that if you are working or play 4 tracks a day that spending the day at your local track isn't really something you really want to or can do(it is easier from home or office), but the entertainment value of this sport is something worth promoting. Plenty of recreational bettors might find it a lot more fun to go to the track and watch the races live, see the horses in the paddock and up close and get into the sport a lot more with the excitement of a live crowd(of more than 7 people). Barn tours etc are a nice touch. Racing has already excluded small recreational bettors with any rebates of substance so why would you not want to give them a chance to get some of the "rebates" that 90% of you guys would quit the game if you weren't getting and at the same time be strategic about using them as rewards to bring customers back and build an on track customer base?

When you go to an entertainment venue, you pay. About $15 a head to see a movie these days. How about a baseball game, basketball game, football game. What is Disneyland/Disneyword these days about $100 bucks a head. Do people not drive 30 or 40 minutes to these venues? Can they not watch their local team on tv?

I am not claiming this will save racing (they are already unwilling to do the one thing that will save racing) but it certainly is better than sitting on your hands and relishing the status quo.

If football, baseball and basketball were participation sports you might have a point. The problem is that racing has focused too much on the entertainment value of racing at the expense of the players.

The majority of the 10% ontrack bets comes from owners, trainers, track hands, and racetrack degenerates who don't have ADW accounts whereby they phone in or send in their bets.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by AndyC

The majority of the 10% ontrack bets comes from owners, trainers, track hands, and racetrack degenerates who don't have ADW accounts whereby they phone in or send in their bets.

Is this because suddenly nobody else has any interest in spending a day at the races or is this because they have poor marketing, horrible customer service, make the racetrack completely uninviting, they overprice there product and they provide nobody with any reasonable incentive to go to the races?

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

Is this because suddenly nobody else has any interest in spending a day at the races or is this because they have poor marketing, horrible customer service, make the racetrack completely uninviting, they overprice there product and they provide nobody with any reasonable incentive to go to the races?

It's been happening for years with the proliferation of OTBs and ADWs.

Unless you like to focus on just 1 track and you live close enough so that it is convenient why bother? I am not going to be entertained.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

Is this because suddenly nobody else has any interest in spending a day at the races or is this because they have poor marketing, horrible customer service, make the racetrack completely uninviting, they overprice there product and they provide nobody with any reasonable incentive to go to the races?

On-track attendance doesn't mix well with today's full-card simulcasting concept. With races going off every few minutes...what horseplayer worth his salt has the time to enjoy the "ambiance" of the racetrack? Even when attending live, the real horseplayer is much more likely to be found in front of some TV deep in the bowels of the place...rather than outside, enjoying the scenery. So why bother going to the track?

The industry has to realize that they can't have their cake, and eat it too.