Lost Vouchers

[BMustang]

Over the years many of us have left vouchers in an automatic teller machine, and may have found a few that were left there. What are your thoghts on this? Are you obligated to turn the ticket in, or is it finders keepers, losers weepers???

I ask this because last week a friend of mine, who bets substantial amounts, left a voucher for $650 in an automatic teller machine. He sat down, reviewed his tickets, and discovered that he was missing his voucher. Returning to the machine, within what he describes as less than a minute, the voucher was gone.

He reported this to track security, who knew him and knew that he was a good customer, and they ran the tape, identified the person who had followed him (less than 20 seconds after he had left the window) and had since cashed it, BUT remained on the premises. When confronted by track security the individual was reluctant to fess up, and only after being threatened with felony theft, did he hand over the cash to the rightful owner. Track security said that any tickets left in an automatic teller machine, in actuality, become property of the race track.

This is pretty much news to me. I suspect that they would have trouble convicting the guy of felonious theft, but on a ticket of that size, he would have probably been best served to turn in the ticket and would have received a handsome reward.

Thoughts???

[Hoofless_Wonder]

People are funny when it comes to money. But to me it's plain theft.

I found a $500 voucher in a machine one time at Turfway, wrote down the wager made on the screen, and waited 20 minutes for the person who left it there to return. They never showed. I turned it in to security.

Two weeks later, I find another voucher for $65, and the guy who left it there came back and claimed it within a couple of minutes after the live race. He thanked me for returning it, and a few guys standing around were smiling and saying what an honest guy I was. I then proceeded to relate the story about the $500 voucher. One of the guys shook his head and said, "Yeah, I'm a good guy too, but I don't know if I'm that good."

What a boob. And I'm sure he felt the same way about me.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by Hoofless_Wonder

People are funny when it comes to money. But to me it's plain theft.

I found a $500 voucher in a machine one time at Turfway, wrote down the wager made on the screen, and waited 20 minutes for the person who left it there to return. They never showed. I turned it in to security.

Two weeks later, I find another voucher for $65, and the guy who left it there came back and claimed it within a couple of minutes after the live race. He thanked me for returning it, and a few guys standing around were smiling and saying what an honest guy I was. I then proceeded to relate the story about the $500 voucher. One of the guys shook his head and said, "Yeah, I'm a good guy too, but I don't know if I'm that good."

What a boob. And I'm sure he felt the same way about me.

you got it right, its no fun to profit off another man's misery due to a mistake. plus someone up there is watching over you and he will reward you some day for your good deed.

i am sure you do other things in your life the right way, and you feel good about them.

[Fingal]

Originally Posted by Hoofless_Wonder

People are funny when it comes to money. But to me it's plain theft.

I know it sounds fun to find money like that, but consider this-

There's an electronic record of every transaction. And there's cameras everywhere at the track covering the SAMs. So therefore everything can be tracked down.

Doesn't matter the amount- be it $5 or $500.......is that quick rush worth the risk of someone coming up from behind & saying "put your hands behind your back ?"

[ldiatone]

dummy me droped a voucher on the floor and one fellow picked it up and turned it into the program desk. lucky i used my rewards card and they looked up my number on the card and found me. i gave the fellow (a regular) a $2.00 betting voucher for finding it and turning it in.

[spiketoo]

Perhaps its from my days working in the financial industry, or perhaps I'm just er, 'thorough' but I've never left a voucher in a machine.

How can someone punch in a ticket, take their bet tickets and leave a voucher? Do you not hit the Done button?

[FantasticDan]

I just left a $75 voucher in a SST at my OTB earlier this week. It was in there a good 5 minutes before I realized it, the place isn't that busy and most of the regulars use the tellers. When I finally did, and was heading to the machine, one of the down and out regulars had just entered and spotted the amount on the machine just as I got to it.

He was all, "That's yours, buddy? Wow, that's a lot!" He then went off into the smoking room mumbling to himself

The two tellers witnessed all this, and as I cashed the voucher they told me that's the first thing the guy does when he comes in everyday, checks the machines.

I'm usually very careful to take my voucher after a wager, and can say that I've never left one before. But hey, anyone can be having a bad day and be a little foggy, get distracted, whatever...

[cutchemist42]

Not sure if anyone else does this, but I wait till the end of the day to cash my winning vouchers. Was at Hastings and at the end of the day I realised a dropped an ok paying exacta voucher. Had no idea where it could have fallen out beyond where I sat. Still walked away enjoying the visit though.

[thespaah]

I have found just two vouchers. That's it.
One at Lone Star. It was a small amount. I thought to myself, "do I really want to go through the hassle of figuring out where to go to turn this thing in?"
SO I hung around the machines until they were loading the horses. Nobody came around.
I kept it.
Another time I found one worth over $200. I thought I saw the guy who just left the machine. This was on the Clubhouse rear side of the upper floor at Saratoga. I caught a glimpse of the guy going around toward the seats. So I literally bolted after the guy. Almost ran someone over. As I got to the front side facing the seats, he was gone...Given that we were sitting in the benches right where i found the voucher, I had plenty of time to see if the guy would return. I was there for the entire card save the last race. The guy never came back.
Who the hell would do that!!!!!?
So I went to the teller who sold vouchers and asked what happens if someone loses a voucher or forgets it. She told me if they don't attempt to reclaim the voucher that day, they are out of luck.
Now I had left one for about $80. I noticed it within a minute. Went to the machine I used because I wrote it down on my program....Gone..
Went to find a tote supervisor. He asked which machine. Gave him the number and details of my wager which I also had written down and of course the balance which I keep track of. He looks in the system and told me the voucher had been cashed....
I guess if you're a high roller regular you can get the kind of service that would compel track security to hunt down the culprit, but the regular guys like me get "I am sorry, but there's nothing we can do for you"....

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by spiketoo

Perhaps its from my days working in the financial industry, or perhaps I'm just er, 'thorough' but I've never left a voucher in a machine.

How can someone punch in a ticket, take their bet tickets and leave a voucher? Do you not hit the Done button?

A lot of people just do not realize this important step in the transaction.
I cannot count how many times I have watched as others have no clue or started to walk away before concluding the transaction, tapped them on the shoulder and told them to hit "done" or "finish".

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by BMustang

I suspect that they would have trouble convicting the guy of felonious theft

I don't. If they had security tapes, they have him dead to rights.

The legal rules with respect to finding something valuable are very clear. You must take reasonable steps to locate the owner of the property. Only after such steps are taken do you get the benefit of a legal presumption that the property is abandoned.

In some situations, that presumption will attach almost immediately. If you find a diamond ring in the wilderness in Alaska, and there is nobody else anywhere near the immediate vicinity, there's probably little you have to do. But in the context of a racetrack self-service betting terminal, it's perfectly clear that nobody who leaves something there is abandoning his or her property. You MUST either try to locate the person yourself ("hey, sir, you left your voucher at the machine!") OR contact a racetrack employee. Taking the voucher and cashing it is theft, and if they have you on tape doing it and they look at the tape and identify you, you're going to to get convicted.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I don't. If they had security tapes, they have him dead to rights.

The legal rules with respect to finding something valuable are very clear. You must take reasonable steps to locate the owner of the property. Only after such steps are taken do you get the benefit of a legal presumption that the property is abandoned.

In some situations, that presumption will attach almost immediately. If you find a diamond ring in the wilderness in Alaska, and there is nobody else anywhere near the immediate vicinity, there's probably little you have to do. But in the context of a racetrack self-service betting terminal, it's perfectly clear that nobody who leaves something there is abandoning his or her property. You MUST either try to locate the person yourself ("hey, sir, you left your voucher at the machine!") OR contact a racetrack employee. Taking the voucher and cashing it is theft, and if they have you on tape doing it and they look at the tape and identify you, you're going to to get convicted.

Seems pretty simple. However, given the numbers of "stoopers", "hawkers" and other types who look to take advantage of the misfortunes of others that never stop their relentless pursuit of "finders keepers", I believe the security measures mentioned all through this thread are applied sporadically

[Tor Ekman]

I can never figure why someone would prefer using the paper vouchers to the NYRA cash card that allows you to set your own PIN #, so in case it's lost, only the person knowing the PIN# can reclaim the account.

[spiketoo]

Originally Posted by Tor Ekman

I can never figure why someone would prefer using the paper vouchers to the NYRA cash card that allows you to set your own PIN #, so in case it's lost, only the person knowing the PIN# can reclaim the account.

Not in NY so never heard of such. Do any other jurisdictions use something similar?

[1GCFAN]

Saratoga this year I left a $113 voucher in a machine after the second race. Went back but out of luck. Before the fifth race I saw a young couple turn and leave without taking their voucher, so I ran after them and returned their $22 voucher.

My buddy left a $400 voucher in a machine before the ninth race.

My other buddy happened to be the next better so he turned it in. He was told to go ahead and cash it. He said no because someone would certainly report the loss. They come back at the end of day and they would cash it for him. One the two buddies talked they realized what had happened and both went to the supervisor to get it back.

Meanwhile I got to thinking that someone might have turned in my $113. Supervisor said it had been cashed but if I could bring up my last ticket before leaving the machine they would put a trace on it. I knew what that bet was but I thought fat chance! I went thru all the losers on our table and found it. Turned it in and she said come back In 5 minutes. I went back and she said it had been frozen in the system and handed me a $113 voucher. When my buddies got their issue straightened out he was shorted $113. They said his $400+ voucher had been bet on. Hmmm.