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Old 07-23-2014, 01:15 PM   #1
deathandgravity
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Colonial Downs

any update on Colonial Downs? Have heard nothing since May.

Real shame... one of my favorite tracks & the only reason I would visit family in Virginia. (they never caught on that my visits coincided with a Colonial TB meet)
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Old 07-23-2014, 01:58 PM   #2
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No racing this year, obviously. The Va Racing Commission "ordered" Colonial and the horsemen's assn to reach an agreement by July 1 on a 2015 schedule. That deadline came and went, and Colonial has filed a court motion contesting the VRC's authority to make that directive.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/virginia...5aecfd3e9.html
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:08 AM   #3
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First I don't buy the "we lose money on live racing" thing.
Second, I think representatives of all three entities should be locked in a room with no air conditioning until they hammer out a long term agreement.
These people have not a care in the world how many people's lives they've adversely affected.
One person stated that "a boutique meet would destroy racing in Virginia"...
Hey genius....Just what the *&^% do you think NO racing is going to do?
I reserve the balance of of my rant time.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaah
First I don't buy the "we lose money on live racing" thing.
Second, I think representatives of all three entities should be locked in a room with no air conditioning until they hammer out a long term agreement.
These people have not a care in the world how many people's lives they've adversely affected.
One person stated that "a boutique meet would destroy racing in Virginia"...
Hey genius....Just what the *&^% do you think NO racing is going to do?
I reserve the balance of of my rant time.
I completely buy the "we lose money on live racing" thing.
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaah
First I don't buy the "we lose money on live racing" thing.
By state law, Colonial gets about 5% of every dollar wagered by a Virginia resident through all out-of-state ADWs, every day of the year ... regardless of whether they're running races. That has eliminated their incentive.

If the state law gave Colonial their 5% while they were racing, and only 2% while they're not, then Colonial would have an incentive and we wouldn't be having this problem.

Whenever you hand someone money for doing nothing, they tend to want to continue to do nothing.
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:53 AM   #6
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I am boycotting Colonial Downs this year.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:36 PM   #7
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Colonial Downs

Knew they were in trouble when a friend of mine ran a horse there a while back which finished fourth. When I asked her how the horse did, she said they would have finished better, but the horse STRUCK A GOOSE ON THE TRACK, and returned bleeding to the unsaddling area.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jballscalls
I completely buy the "we lose money on live racing" thing.
Ok...I'll bite...Why is Cnl losing money on live racing?
And as a follow up, why on earth would anyone make such a large investment on a business that was destined to lose money?
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocala Mike
Knew they were in trouble when a friend of mine ran a horse there a while back which finished fourth. When I asked her how the horse did, she said they would have finished better, but the horse STRUCK A GOOSE ON THE TRACK, and returned bleeding to the unsaddling area.
Tell ya what.....As one who plays golf once a week and one who believes that animal rights are important but have been carried WAY to far, I despise Canada geese.
These birds mess up golf courses with their constant tugging and digging of turf and their toxic to everything excrement. Yet, because these pests are "migratory water fowl" they are protected by federal law.
I digress.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnollfan
I am boycotting Colonial Downs this year.
me too
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaah
Ok...I'll bite...Why is Cnl losing money on live racing?
And as a follow up, why on earth would anyone make such a large investment on a business that was destined to lose money?
I don't know that they are. But I can totally believe it. Costs to run a race meet are really high and I've heard a number of tracks utter the phrase "lose as little as you can during the meet and make as much as you can during simulcast/dark days."

I just looked up a day of handle from Colonial last year, Sunday July 7th. They paid out a little more than $130k in purses.

They had $80k in on track handle, which at 20% blended take is 16k in income.
14k in instate wagering, let's say they get 20% from that, another 3k

372k in out of state wagers, which they probably get 3% from...so 11k.

So they're showing 30k in profit off the racing card. That's before taxes, % to horsemen, state racing commissions etc.

Now you gotta pay all your seasonal employees for the day. Gate crew $120 a day per guy, so that's $1500 right there. Now pay announcer, placing judges, in house stews, jocks room personnel, clerk of scales, track crew, photo finish, equibase, television crew, ambulances and EMT's to follow the horses (imagine what that costs!) your track handicapper/tv personality, paddock judge, entire racing office and about 20 or 30 other people.

Oh plus you gotta pay out purses

Whereas simulcast days, you employ a teller or two, someone at guest services and someone at the coffee shop, who are all getting 10 to 15 an hour and make 15 or 20k on simo wagering.

As far as why someone would make investment, because they can probably make money in the off-season or on concessions. Or as is the case at some tracks, the owners just love horse racing.
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jballscalls
I don't know that they are. But I can totally believe it. Costs to run a race meet are really high and I've heard a number of tracks utter the phrase "lose as little as you can during the meet and make as much as you can during simulcast/dark days."

I just looked up a day of handle from Colonial last year, Sunday July 7th. They paid out a little more than $130k in purses.

They had $80k in on track handle, which at 20% blended take is 16k in income.
14k in instate wagering, let's say they get 20% from that, another 3k

372k in out of state wagers, which they probably get 3% from...so 11k.

So they're showing 30k in profit off the racing card. That's before taxes, % to horsemen, state racing commissions etc.

Now you gotta pay all your seasonal employees for the day. Gate crew $120 a day per guy, so that's $1500 right there. Now pay announcer, placing judges, in house stews, jocks room personnel, clerk of scales, track crew, photo finish, equibase, television crew, ambulances and EMT's to follow the horses (imagine what that costs!) your track handicapper/tv personality, paddock judge, entire racing office and about 20 or 30 other people.

Oh plus you gotta pay out purses

Whereas simulcast days, you employ a teller or two, someone at guest services and someone at the coffee shop, who are all getting 10 to 15 an hour and make 15 or 20k on simo wagering.

As far as why someone would make investment, because they can probably make money in the off-season or on concessions. Or as is the case at some tracks, the owners just love horse racing.
Which brings me back to my earlier question....Why build the thing in the first place?
Did Cnl's bean counters really miss by that much?
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:10 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by thespaah
Which brings me back to my earlier question....Why build the thing in the first place?
Did Cnl's bean counters really miss by that much?
Simulcasting (and now online) revenue when not racing live. Of course, now that they are squabbling with the horsemen it is only online revenue.
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:20 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by thespaah
Which brings me back to my earlier question....Why build the thing in the first place?
Did Cnl's bean counters really miss by that much?

Jeff Jacobs is into casinos. He thought he would have casinos in Virginia in a few years after he built the track like the rest of the Mid atlantic states and he would be in the drivers seat. Now he knows that's not going to happen in this commonwealth state so I think he just wants out.
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:28 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ctownraces@bp
Jeff Jacobs is into casinos. He thought he would have casinos in Virginia in a few years after he built the track like the rest of the Mid atlantic states and he would be in the drivers seat. Now he knows that's not going to happen in this commonwealth state so I think he just wants out.
I don't know what could have given him that idea.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ommittee-vote/
I like this quote.....Speaking about casino gaming
“Forty-nine states will have it before we get it,” the Virginia Senate’s Democratic leader Richard L. Saslaw told me at the time. Remembering that Utah exists, the Fairfax County lawmaker — who has supported casino legislation in the past — said: “Maybe 48.”
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