Zivo 19-1 to 13-1 after the load started (Suburban HCP)

[SandyW]

Originally Posted by reckless

Many good points throughout this thread but it is my opinion that if the racetracks closed and locked all betting three or so minutes before the race starts then most fans and bettors would have more confidence in this great game of ours.

It seems that every day at every venue there are similar examples of odds' drops that result in many of us simply shaking our heads. This has been discussed here quite often and it seems to have no end.

I sadly believe that there is some real chicanery going on and when horses go from 19-1 to 13-1, even in graded stakes races in New York, it leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.

Sure, of course, one could never prove any wrongdoing by racetracks. but if Zivo was truly a mispriced overlay, then he was also mispriced throughout the betting cycle, especially with 8-5-3 minutes before post time.

Lock the betting with 3 minutes to post and you will end up losing about 50% of the handle on the race.
So what is the point, their is nobody past posting at any tracks with pari mutual wagering, it just looks like it because of the delay in a tote system that is older then methuselah.

[Trips]

Originally Posted by Exotic1

The pace figure Grits is referring to is the "comprehensive" early position number assigned to the horse not the pace figure for each race and not the pace figure for each segment of each race. It's the bold numbers immediately to the right of the running style where the number left of the of the forward slash "/" is the comprehensive early number (used for the pace projector) and the number to the right of the slash would be the comprehensive late pace number. I probably have it all wrong but don't let me know b/c I'm doing ok this way.

Figured that but was hoping their was something different she was referring to. So darn difficult for me to look at the print out with all the bells and whistles they have on it. Maybe down the road there will be a condensed version that includes the pace figures.

[Exotic1]

Originally Posted by Trips

Figured that but was hoping their was something different she was referring to. So darn difficult for me to look at the print out with all the bells and whistles they have on it. Maybe down the road there will be a condensed version that includes the pace figures.

The PP product with all the Bells.... or the Condensed version is difficult?

[Trips]

Originally Posted by Exotic1

The PP product with all the Bells.... or the Condensed version is difficult?

The pp version is difficult if all you want are the pace figures. There is a lot going on with the pp version. Some will love it but if you just want the meat and potatoes it is a bit much. Way too many colors.
Maybe down the road their will be a version that is in the middle.
Condensed version that includes the pace figures.

[KingChas]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

You think the races are that crooked and you still bet them? You got me beat.

Being honest Al,
I think the on track wagering should not be comingled with everybody and their half bit brother,Tvg,Twinspires,Xpress bets ,Drf bets,
........etc,etc,etc...new providers every day.....never ending,
And go back to the good ole days.....what you see on the board is what you get when the gate opens.
Not 5/1 at the gate 3/1 after 2 furlongs and 9/5 after your horse is running away after 4 furlongs!
Never happen................end o story.

Between the takeout and the crazy odd fluctuations I bet them less and less each year.............

[Exotic1]

Originally Posted by Trips

The pp version is difficult if all you want are the pace figures. There is a lot going on with the pp version. Some will love it but if you just want the meat and potatoes it is a bit much. Way too many colors.
Maybe down the road their will be a version that is in the middle.
Condensed version that includes the pace figures.

I too would like the option to print the "old" format when they were known as Cj figs.

[Exotic1]

Originally Posted by Grits

Hoofless, this has been done. It was done over a decade ago, I think. Someone could correct me if I'm wrong. I believe wagering was closed at a minute to post. And it went over like a lead balloon. It didn't last. Bettors complained.

...Good work, Exotic. Glad you were given the "go".
My downfall would be posting the pdf.

I think this worked. I highlighted the top 2 early and late pace comprehensive figs for the Suburban. As Grits correctly pointed out, Zivo had the second highest late pace fig while Moreno had the highest early pace fig. Wait a minute, that sounds like the exacta.

[Exotic1]

Originally Posted by raybo

If you DON'T assume that Zivo can't get the distance, then he rated in the top 3 or 4 in many categories, and certainly 13/1 odds would have been an overlay, by quite a bit, IMO.

Here are some shots of my program showing various rankings methods:

Raybo,

When we have some time, I'm going to need a walk through on your reports.

Thanks

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by SandyW

Lock the betting with 3 minutes to post and you will end up losing about 50% of the handle on the race.
So what is the point, their is nobody past posting at any tracks with pari mutual wagering, it just looks like it because of the delay in a tote system that is older then methuselah.

Nobody's past posting? Wow, that's good to know, i feel much better.

[KingChas]

12 years ago,don't worry they fixed it. ....yea right!
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/22/sp...-headache.html

2002
N.Y.R.A. officials have decided to be proactive. Starting next Wednesday, all bets placed off-site from Aqueduct must be made before the first horse loads into the starting gate, normally about a minute before a race starts.

Yea Right!

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by KingChas

12 years ago,don't worry they fixed it. ....yea right!
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/22/sp...-headache.html

Funny, i don't remember reading that "Racing" spent millions to upgrade the systems....maybe they did and i just missed the article?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zyjLyBp64

[Grits]

Originally Posted by KingChas

12 years ago,don't worry they fixed it. ....yea right!
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/22/sp...-headache.html

2002
N.Y.R.A. officials have decided to be proactive. Starting next Wednesday, all bets placed off-site from Aqueduct must be made before the first horse loads into the starting gate, normally about a minute before a race starts.

Yea Right!

Thank you for posting the link. I was pretty sure, as I stated in my post, that the changing of the wagering cut off time was tried over a decade ago.

N.Y.R.A. officials have decided to be proactive. Starting next Wednesday, all bets placed off-site from Aqueduct must be made before the first horse loads into the starting gate, normally about a minute before a race starts. Customers at Aqueduct can bet up to the second the race begins, but on-track bets are calculated in real time and therefore affect the odds immediately. The idea is to have the odds remain the same from the time a race begins through the time the payoffs are posted.Rules that went into effect Nov. 13 at Churchill Downs and three other tracks owned by Churchill Downs Inc., are even more stringent. All betting for on- and off-track players is closed when the tote board reads zero minutes to post, which is at least a minute before the race actually starts. Tom Meeker, the president and chief executive of Churchill Downs, said the changes have resulted in few problems and were a necessary step. He said it was too early tell whether or not the Churchill tracks were losing business because of the new policy.

''We are looking at this as a long-term investment in consumer confidence,'' Meeker said. ''Any nickel we may have spent to do this or any loss in business that may result from it has to be viewed as worthwhile when we are talking about the public's perception of our industry.''

[Thebigguy]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Here were the odds as the horses loaded the gate as per the TVG graphic, 3 or 4 horses were loaded when TVG took the graphic off the screen.

1) 6
2) 49
3) 19
4) 5
5) 3
6) 2
7) 23
8) 15
9) 23
10) 19
11) 8

Here were the final prices according to equibase chart.

1) 6
2) 48
3) 13
4) 5
5) 3
6) 2
7) 25
8) 16
9) 29
10) 20
11) 8

Another NYRA conspiracy??? But you dont bash NYRA? Come on bro

[Thebigguy]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

Right? Another Chad Brown winner. Can't remember the last time the guy lost a race at any track.

And again you accuse Brown of being a juicer!!! Do you ever stop? The race was WIDE open if you did not trust Romansh. And it was hard to trust that horse. I had Romansh as an A and 6 B's. Just stop....

[Thebigguy]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

The point of this thread is?

Thats simple. I know Im 5 pages late, but the point is bash NYRA and accuse Brown of being a cheater.