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Old 06-30-2014, 01:23 AM   #31
horses4courses
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaah
The athletes make tons of money. They cannot be bribed. Why would they?
I agree with all you say, until the last part.

Never say never - especially when it comes to "easy money".

It's always blown me away how much money can be bet - either legally
or otherwise - on a single game point spread in this country.
The perfect scenario for "fixing" is a huge favorite (say, over 14 points in
either football or basketball) that still wins the game, but doesn't
come close to covering the spread. The casual bystander thinks
nothing of it - after all, the favorite won the game. End of story.

You are correct in saying that pro athletes would be harder to bribe.
College athletes are far more prone to "take a dive".
However, nothing is impossible when large sums of cash are involved.

These types of "non-covering favorite" situations could occur pretty easily
with little risk of detection. Unless, those involved got too greedy and tried it
once too often.

Where would they get the wagers down?
Hard to say, except that large illegal bookmakers might be very interested
in being able to lay large sums at favorable spreads to unsuspecting bettors
in the knowledge that they won't be having to pay out.

This is where the pro sports bodies, and the NCAA, start to cough uncomfortably,
and try to change the topic of discussion.
They always deny that legal books in Nevada are the best possible
barometer for uncovering point-shaving and fixing situations.
Unusual betting patterns can be detected in Nevada pretty easily,
and those responsible actually have a chance of being caught.
This has happened on more than one occasion - an Arizona State
point-shaving scheme comes to mind in 1994.

Under current conditions, with billions being bet illegally
both in the US and with the offshore books, game fixing is far more difficult to detect.
Pro sports, and the NCAA, have no desire to make changes.
They argue their games will become tainted
should gambling on them be legalized beyond Nevada.
They don't want change because they are making billions as things stand.

I won't go into the probable influences on those who lobby politically
for these sports bodies. You can draw your own conclusions.
It's safe to say, though, that all involved do very nicely
under the current state of affairs. They long to maintain the status quo.

This state of inertia, when it comes to sports wagering, goes against the wishes of a growing number of younger voters. It's not a critical issue, by any means, but, like marijuana, it has gained more prominence.

Here's hoping it continues to do so, and that eventually each state
will have a choice as to whether it's residents can wager legally
on a sporting event.
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:42 AM   #32
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We have people who post here who yell fix a lot when the team they bet on loses. Try using they make too much to bought argument on them.
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Old 06-30-2014, 03:29 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyW
The feds will shut Jersey down on the first day that they try to start sports wagering.
Well, I would ask then, how is it that Nevada is able to do it, yet no other state can do it ?....

That question has always intrigued me...
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Old 06-30-2014, 03:31 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespaah
And the people running those leagues plus the NCAA have a view through rose colored glasses.
There is literally billions of dollars in "illegal" handle wagered every year on their respective sports.
I think its farcical that bettors in Nevada can make all the wagers they wish and the sports leagues look the other way.
It's like "ok we know they're betting in Vegas and we'll live with that, but THAT'S IT!!!"....
The whole thing is illogical. The idea that contests will be infiltrated and game fixing will become rampant is ludicrous. The athletes make tons of money. They cannot be bribed. Why would they?

Its pretty simple, sports leagues are against sports wagering because they aren't getting a cut of the proceeds, it has nothing to do with "fixing". billions of dollars of illegal money is being moved on a yearly basis, its not like the fixers are sitting around waiting patiently for sports betting to become legal.

People looking to fix games and bribe players are not waiting for a govt run building, equipped with state of the art surveillance cameras where you're required to bring large amounts of cash to bet at a place with strict limits, the fixers, if these people actually exist, are doing all their stuff behind the scenes, away from the prying eyes and they're doing it ON CREDIT.
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:06 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LottaKash
Well, I would ask then, how is it that Nevada is able to do it, yet no other state can do it ?....

That question has always intrigued me...
Nevada was grandfathered in.
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:33 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
How is not giving purse supplements screwing the horsemen? Since when is making a business stand on it two feet a bad thing. He made a mistake by giving money to the casino, but at least he did compound it by giving to the horsemen too.
Robert Goren we have gone down this road many times, the horseman cut a deal with the casinos to keep the VLT's from popping up at the racetracks and cutting into the profits the casinos make. The casinos feared once the VLT's were in table games weren't too far behind. You are too critical of the horseman and not of the casino owners who have a constitution protecting them in NJ from the spread of casino style gaming to anywhere else in the state. The tax incentives the casinos received have also been on the "are you kidding me" who decided this debate. Did you ever wonder who wrote that into the constitution? Guess....
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:38 AM   #37
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Here's hoping it continues to do so, and that eventually each state
will have a choice as to whether it's residents can wager legally
on a sporting event.


horses4courses you nailed it let the states decide!
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:49 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyW
Nevada was grandfathered in.
What about Delaware?
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisVOX
What about Delaware?
Oregon, Delaware, Nevada and Montana did not take part in the amateur and professional sports protection act of 1992.
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:40 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by ManU918
Oregon, Delaware, Nevada and Montana did not take part in the amateur and professional sports protection act of 1992.
I'm not at attorney, nor do I pretend to be one online, so the whole legal landscape of this thing is hard to understand.
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:15 AM   #41
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SRU:
Its pretty simple, sports leagues are against sports wagering because they aren't getting a cut of the proceeds,
It is simple, but more complicated. Here are a couple of other factors to consider:

Remember that the NFL came into existence partly as a way for several rich bootleggers, bookmakers, and racketeers to become "respectable" and to moneywash their fortunes. Something of the original stigma of being lowlife outsiders remains with the league's owners, and so part of the opposition to gambling stems from that as a kind of "reaction formation." They want/need to appear to be against things like gambling and other vices, which are basically responsible for their being in league in the first place.

Second, unrelated to gambling but perhaps relevant, both the NCAA and the NFL are in significantly (NCAA) and slightly (NFL) weakened legal positions than they were a couple of years ago. The O'Bannon trial may destroy the NCAA as a cartel, and the NFL is under considerable pressure from the concussion scandal which still has many acts to follow. Both might be more sensitive to appearing to be taking money out of the states where their leagues operate during a time when public revenues are under extreme pressure.

The biggest reason leagues are opposed is that no league wants the additional regulation and pressure for the licensing of owners that will come in any state with fully legalized gambling and which is home to a pro sports team (this is I believe the biggest reason there will not be any pro sports teams in Nevada. Please correct if wrong.) If this concern of the leagues can be gotten around, and they can maintain their appearance of opposition to gambling, it could work.

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Old 06-30-2014, 10:15 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redboard
Exactly. We have our illustrious gov to thank for this mess. He of the 2016 presidential aspirations. The state invested $263 million to finish building the Revel( in exchange for 20% of the revenues), screwed the horsemen out of any purse supplements and refused to put casinos anywhere else in the state. Any idiot could see that, with surrounding states now having casinos, AC needed another casino like another hole in the head. If Iím a resident of Philadelphia, why would I have to drive 2 hours to play a game of blackjack?
Why not was put a casino in Camden, Monmouth and the Meadowlands? You know, like, where the people are. Idiot.
Please explain to me how Christie in his first year of office was getting anything done without the cooperation of the senate presidents approval. Last time I looked he was a republican in a heavily dominated senate and assembly by the opposing party. Lets throw in Sweeney is from south Jersey do you really think he cares about Secaucus?

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/n...a4bcf887a.html


Camden? REALLY??? Camden? Do you really think you could get one corporation to invest in a casino LOCATED IN CAMDEN??? May be its convenient for you but he would be impeached if a dollar from state funds was invested there for gambling purposes. My hunch is nine out of ten potential customers would drive up to an additional thirty miles to avoid going there.



Camden Ranks Most Dangerous City In The Country



http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...n-the-country/


I will admit he has made mistakes but has the guts to try something other states are scared stiff of attempting. How many states let you play poker without driving to a proposed (yours) casino in Camden. He is trying to get sports wagering up and running despite opposition from the feds. Delaware just packed up their bags and quit after the Supreme Court ruled against them.


Why does Monmouth get a casino (again your idea) before Middlesex? They have almost 200,000 more residents. Monmouth barely edges out faster growing Ocean why should they be discriminated against? Why didn't you suggest Newark since you bravely put Camden in the discussion.

http://www.us-places.com/New-Jersey/...-by-County.htm
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:23 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyW
The one thing that has to be remembered is that the NCAA, MLB, NFL, is against the spread of sports wagering and that Harry Reid is in charge of the senate.
These hurdles alone will be almost impossible to over come.
The feds will shut Jersey down on the first day that they try to start sports wagering.
What federal law will jersey be violating? The answer there is no federal law on the books preventing jersey from rescinding its sports betting laws as long as they don't sponser or promote sports betting.

Allan
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:27 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefast99
Here's hoping it continues to do so, and that eventually each state
will have a choice as to whether it's residents can wager legally
on a sporting event.


horses4courses you nailed it let the states decide!
In Jersey it wasn't, politicians that passed a law, it was the citizens via the vote decided that sports betting was allowed at casinos and racetracks.

The state is just following what the voters want.

Allan
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:57 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by biggestal99
In Jersey it wasn't, politicians that passed a law, it was the citizens via the vote decided that sports betting was allowed at casinos and racetracks.

The state is just following what the voters want.

Allan
The NJ state Legislature passed the bill last week that could pave the way for privately owned sports wagering at both casinos and horse-racing tracks. This was done to save the gaming and racing industry which have both fallen on hard times in the recent years with the influx of bordering states opening casinos. The voters approved the bill in 2011. Governor Christie signed it into law in 2012. My reply was on the comment made by horses4courses that all states should give their voters the right to decide not the Supreme Court!
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