You can't make this stuff up

[tanner12oz]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

These threads have nothing to do with what you're talking about. The conflicts that are complained about are the ones like this:

1) Mountaineer running their big race exactly at the same SECOND as the Whitney, a 1.5 at America's best track (not Ellis).

2) Charlestown and Mountaineer running on top of each other when NO OTHER TRACKS are running in the entire USA.

3) Presque Isle starting their card when the final race at Saratoga is running and there are NO OTHER TRACKS running at the time.

When 14 tracks are running, we understand that you can't keep moving around post times because you will avoid one track and be on top of another, we get that, i think most of us are talking about the situations that are avoidable, not the ones that aren't.

the mnr ct thing always boggles my mind being that they are the same damn state

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by tanner12oz

the mnr ct thing always boggles my mind being that they are the same damn state

I was on the phone with someone from Charlestown, i think it was a judge, and i said "you do realize that you guys run at the same time as Mountaineer" and he acted as if Mountaineer was in a different country. He didn't realize they were competing with each other for betting dollars.

What seems obvious to us, isn't so obvious to people who can care less about the horseplayers and that there is this thing called simulcasting and people who are not live at Charlestown can actually place wagers on most any track that is running in the USA.

Some don't realize this.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

These threads have nothing to do with what you're talking about. The conflicts that are complained about are the ones like this:

1) Mountaineer running their big race exactly at the same SECOND as the Whitney, a 1.5 at America's best track (not Ellis).

2) Charlestown and Mountaineer running on top of each other when NO OTHER TRACKS are running in the entire USA.

3) Presque Isle starting their card when the final race at Saratoga is running and there are NO OTHER TRACKS running at the time.

When 14 tracks are running, we understand that you can't keep moving around post times because you will avoid one track and be on top of another, we get that, i think most of us are talking about the situations that are avoidable, not the ones that aren't.

1. Both races went off almost exactly as scheduled. Why did Mountaineer schedule the West Virginia Derby for the seventh race rather than the eighth? Probably because of TV. The five o'clock hour was what was available on the network. (Fox Sports?) Why not schedule it five minutes earlier? That means five minutes less time for folks to bet. Why not five minutes later? Again the answer is the network. They want time for post race interviews and analysis.

3. According to the charts over at Equibase the first race at PID was not run at the same time as the last race at Saratoga. The last at Saratoga was off at 5:22. It was a six furlong race, which means it was over by 5:24. The first at PID went off at 5:26.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

I was on the phone with someone from Charlestown, i think it was a judge, and i said "you do realize that you guys run at the same time as Mountaineer" and he acted as if Mountaineer was in a different country. He didn't realize they were competing with each other for betting dollars.

What seems obvious to us, isn't so obvious to people who can care less about the horseplayers and that there is this thing called simulcasting and people who are not live at Charlestown can actually place wagers on most any track that is running in the USA.

Some don't realize this.

I understand that there are people (maybe including you) who like to wait until the last nano-second to place their bets. And I understand that having two or more tracks going off at the same time could be problematic. But I don't think we should inconvenience every one else to accommodate those people.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by mostpost

I understand that there are people (maybe including you) who like to wait until the last nano-second to place their bets. And I understand that having two or more tracks going off at the same time could be problematic. But I don't think we should inconvenience every one else to accommodate those people.

I'm not asking for the world, all i'm asking for is for these people to be a little more self aware at what's going on in the world of horse racing.

As far as the PID race goes, the Spa race crossed the line and the PID horses were walking to the gate, they were loading before the SPA race went official, but it was too close to handicap the PID race and make a wager. (i need at least 1 or 2 extra minutes to handicap! )

[rastajenk]

Why does it take Saratoga 4 1/2 hours to run nine races on a Monday anyway? All those empty seats pictured in another thread here aren't lining up to make some bets, are they?

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by nearco

Laws can be changed. And in this case should be changed.
The idea that you can only have a casino in the same location as a racetrack and that you have the horses a chunk of your profits is absolutely bizarre and flies in the face of the basic tenets of capitalism.
It makes about as much sense as a law requiring that you can only sell cigarettes in a plumbing supply store.

It may not make sense to you, but it is what it is.
What better place to build a casino. Parking and infrastructure already in place. Reduced NIMBY concerns. Etc.
You seem upset. Why?
Do you have a group of investors ready to build a casino?

[Track Phantom]

Simple solution to this problem. I've mentioned it before. Tracks in the same "region" should partner to coordinate and market their product.

I'm from MN so I'll use Canterbury Park and Prairie Meadows, for example. Both tracks race Thursday through Sunday. Both tracks have post times around 6:30 (PRM at 6:30 and CBY at 6:34). Why not "cooperate" and stagger the post times? There is so much you can do with that kind of partnership (share horses, co-market big days, etc).

I'm sure there are a shitload of personal agendas that get in the way of these kinds of things but, if most tracks don't start thinking outside of the box on this and many, many other issues, they will die off. Fact.

[Stillriledup]

PID did a better job today. Ran their first race about 30 seconds after the horses hit the wire at Saratoga in the finale. 1 or 2 horses were loaded at PID as the horses hit the wire at the Spa. And yes, PID and Saratoga were the only 2 tracks running in America.

Good job guys.

[Stillriledup]

4 tracks in the entire country running, they are:

Mountaineer
Del mar
Penn National
CT

CT is running right on top of DMR, to the second. Penn and Mtr are running within 2 mins of DMR.

All tracks running their next-up race within 5 mins of each other.

You cant make it up.

[iceknight]

Originally Posted by mostpost

I understand that there are people (maybe including you) who like to wait until the last nano-second to place their bets. And I understand that having two or more tracks going off at the same time could be problematic. But I don't think we should inconvenience every one else to accommodate those people.

your assessment is not correct. If tracks are looking at churn handle as a legitimate revenue source from simulcasting and internet based wagering, then they SHOULD pay attention to this issue. If I win at CT, I might bet some of the win at MNR. But if both CT and MNR go off at same time, I would just bet one and the other loses that potential handle.

If I lose at CT when time is staggered, then someone else who won from the parimutuel pool at CT can then bet their wins at MNR.

But if both go off at same time, my money either comes back to me or goes to another bettor and only one track's take out. Add appropriate snarky closing remark here.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by iceknight

your assessment is not correct. If tracks are looking at churn handle as a legitimate revenue source from simulcasting and internet based wagering, then they SHOULD pay attention to this issue. If I win at CT, I might bet some of the win at MNR. But if both CT and MNR go off at same time, I would just bet one and the other loses that potential handle.

If I lose at CT when time is staggered, then someone else who won from the parimutuel pool at CT can then bet their wins at MNR.

But if both go off at same time, my money either comes back to me or goes to another bettor and only one track's take out. Add appropriate snarky closing remark here.

Good points Icer.

I don't think there are too many people who would argue that the tracks should just run when they run and if you don't like it, tough cookies.

If the NHL was run by horse racing people, they would be playing a slate of games starting at 6pm eastern time on Super Bowl Sunday.

[Hambletonian]

Originally Posted by mostpost

You know what I hate? It's not the tracks starting their races at (about) the same time. It's you guys wasting my time and PA's bandwidth complaining about it. If I run a racetrack, I am interested in making sure my track is running smoothly. I can't control what the other tracks are doing and I am not going to change my schedule because another track is running late (or early). Once you start doing that, where does it end?

If I am running Arlington and move my fifth race post back five minutes to avoid a conflict with Saratoga's seventh only to find out I am in conflict with Ellis Park's seventh I would not be a happy track owner. To say nothing of the fact that any of those tracks including mine could have other unforeseen delays.

There are as many as ten major and semi-major tracks running on any given day. There are only thirty minutes in which to fit all ten of those tracks. Use your heads and stop complaining about nothing.

could not agree more. the tracks have no incentive to work it out, as there is almost no money to be made. and if this bothers you because you are betting 5 tracks at once, get a bigger bankroll or perhaps cut down to a more manageable number of tracks.

without central control, no attempt to even out the number of races a day will ever occur, and central control is not likely until we lose about 50 percent of the tracks. i give it 5-10 years

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Hambletonian

could not agree more. the tracks have no incentive to work it out, as there is almost no money to be made. and if this bothers you because you are betting 5 tracks at once, get a bigger bankroll or perhaps cut down to a more manageable number of tracks.

without central control, no attempt to even out the number of races a day will ever occur, and central control is not likely until we lose about 50 percent of the tracks. i give it 5-10 years

its not about cutting down tracks followed, its about maximizing revenue and putting horse racing customers first. In this day and age, its possible to bet on any track, there's absolutely no reason that tracks can't be aware of post times and when other tracks are running.

Now, some have said that with so many tracks running you can't move post times all over the place because when you move one post time to avoid one track, you might conflict with another.

I have a problem with days and situations where only 2 or 3 tracks are running in the entire country and they're all on top of each other. Presque Isle is a great example. They're the only track who's running a race at 5:35 PM eastern on certain days, yet, they ran directly on top of the final race at Saratoga, which is a BIG race, as its the final leg of a massive pick 4 pool as well as the final pick 3 and the pick 6. Zero reason for them to run directly on top of that race, as there's nothing else running.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Hambletonian

could not agree more. the tracks have no incentive to work it out, as there is almost no money to be made. and if this bothers you because you are betting 5 tracks at once, get a bigger bankroll or perhaps cut down to a more manageable number of tracks.

I don't think it has much to do with bankroll size and waiting to get paid so you can bet another track. It has to with the way betting is today. Even at the biggest tracks, you can't assume the price you are seeing with 5 MTP resembles what you will see as the horses are loading. You simply have to monitor the odds if you play the game seriously these days. Knowing the odds as the horses load is no guarantee of anything, but it beats betting at 5 or 10 mtp by a longshot.