California Chrome

[Hank]

Mr. Gorilla's criticism of CC is inherently flawed in that it is based upon attacking his competitors and the track surface.Not a peep about what he did or how he did it. After Usain Bolt electrified the world shattering the world 100m record with ease in the 2008 Olympics, Mr.Gorilla was undoubtedly talking about the also rans and the track surface.

[ArlJim78]

Like many I'm the type who is normally full of doubts about the annointed derby favorite, but that appears not to be the case this year. At this point the horse looks like a standout and has derby winner written all over him. Not making a final call just yet, but I was impressed with what I saw Saturday.

[bgbootha]

Originally Posted by Hank

Mr. Gorilla's criticism of CC is inherently flawed in that it is based upon attacking his competitors and the track surface.Not a peep about what he did or how he did it. After Usain Bolt electrified the world shattering the world 100m record with ease in the 2008 Olympics, Mr.Gorilla was undoubtedly talking about the also rans and the track surface.

I have been trying to find a reason to go against CC on Derby Day, and there isn't one. I see where Gorilla is coming from, as those two things are the only two things you can pull from.

You can point to the SA track, but lets not pretend that the track is a 5 length advantage.

The idea that his competition was weak a valid, only because the Santa Anita Derby set up perfectly for CC. He had no one to press the pace, Hoppertunity had no chance there with the way that pace set up.

[bks]

Originally Posted by cj

113 for the winner, slightly lower than the 117 in the Wood. I've had the NY horses faster all year, and while there is no guarantee one horse can verify anything, Kristo sure didn't hurt that premise.

Out of curiosity cj, how did you have Bodemeister and I'll Have Another rated going into the 2012 Derby vis-a-vis their East Coast competitors?

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Exotic1

Good presentation of the facts. Also as you finished with, "Prior Results do not guarantee a similar outcome", especially when there are 19 horses coming at you from all sides. It does seem however like we haven't seen too many (any?) horses overcome adversity such as post position, going really wide, pace pressure, maneuver from between horses, get knocked around a bit and still close strongly. It "seems" (no quantification available) that many of the top 3yo races were won with horses getting good trips. No knocks on CC at all, you can't blame him or downgrade him for beating up his competition. Good horses make it appear that everything went their way when they demolish their competition.

Other than a time based metric, did any horse really impress you to say this horse can overcome most of what they throw at him and still run his race? I don' know, maybe I'm looking for a superstar that can do everything.

Well put Robert.
Really like the line featured in Bold print.......very true.

[cj]

Originally Posted by bks

Out of curiosity cj, how did you have Bodemeister and I'll Have Another rated going into the 2012 Derby vis-a-vis their East Coast competitors?

I know Bodemeister was rated fastest in the field going into the Derby. He was also rated fastest coming out, but I did predict I'll Have Another would beat him in the Preakness despite his pace adjusted faster number.

[Saratoga_Mike]

CC is the Mister Frisky of this yr's Derby. Of course me saying that almost ensures a win for him, but I will absolutely not use him in the top spot in the Derby.

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

CC is the Mister Frisky of this yr's Derby. Of course me saying that almost ensures a win for him, but I will absolutely not use him in the top spot in the Derby.

You should keep a shredder on hand for all your losing tickets.

The only thing that can beat this horse is the trip (which of course is possible) but any talk that he isn't good enough is ridiculous. He is winning races in ways that only superstars can, doing it for fun and last time with the jockey easing him up.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

You should keep a shredder on hand for all your losing tickets.

The only thing that can beat this horse is the trip (which of course is possible) but any talk that he isn't good enough is ridiculous. He is winning races in ways that only superstars can, doing it for fun and last time with the jockey easing him up.

I'd be shocked if he wins - he just doesn't fit the profile of modern (last 20 yrs) Derby winners. Just in case, I do own a shredder.

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

I'd be shocked if he wins - he just doesn't fit the profile of modern (last 20 yrs) Derby winners. Just in case, I do own a shredder.

Do you mean the way he runs or his size? What about him "doesn't fit"?

I think you mean that his best races have been from close to the front, and I think that's a valid concern for the Derby. I think he is good enough to win the Derby if he gets a spot anywhere from half a length to 2 lengths behind the leader. I believe there will be horses coming for him from further back than that, I just don't think they will be able to catch him.

I think of the way Big Brown won.

[cj]

If horses like Holy Bull and Point Given can miss hitting the board in the Derby, California Chrome certainly can too.

[PhantomOnTour]

Originally Posted by cj

If horses like Holy Bull and Point Given can miss hitting the board in the Derby, California Chrome certainly can too.

And I don't think he's a Holy Bull or a Point Given

[Rex Phinney]

Originally Posted by cj

If horses like Holy Bull and Point Given can miss hitting the board in the Derby, California Chrome certainly can too.

Holy Bull and Point Given aren't racing this year.

Tell us all then who from NY is going to beat him? You just had a horse win the Wood basically because no one else up there can make it 9 furlongs. You would need an hourglass to figure out the time of the last 3 furlongs in the Wood.

What exactly are you using Kristo as comparison for? He hasn't won anything but an allowance race? Midnight Hawk beat him. What else is there to say.

[nijinski]

CC may bring some credibility to Los Al as a training center . Who new?

[cj]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

Holy Bull and Point Given aren't racing this year.

Tell us all then who from NY is going to beat him? You just had a horse win the Wood basically because no one else up there can make it 9 furlongs. You would need an hourglass to figure out the time of the last 3 furlongs in the Wood.

What exactly are you using Kristo as comparison for? He hasn't won anything but an allowance race? Midnight Hawk beat him. What else is there to say.

I personally had the NY horses faster going in, and faster coming out. We'll see. California Chrome is certainly a very good horse. I've never said he wasn't. But wow, the hype has kicked into overdrive. There are threads proclaiming him a lock triple crown winner already.

I personally think his running style will put him in trouble. He doesn't need to lead, but he'll be close, and I don't see any way the pace won't be extremely fast. With his running style, if he draws inside he'll get shuffled back, but if he draws outside, he'll lose a lot of ground while running fast around the first turn. Neither are very good options in my opinion.

Here is my recap on the races: http://t.co/KLLnAo2kdo