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Old 03-09-2014, 10:37 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by traynor
Great description. The source is the actual, physical race, including appearance and behavior in the paddock, post parade, and warmup. Race replays are good supplements, but should not be considered a substitute for watching the entire race live.

I have never met, heard about, or read about any serious trip handicapper that limited his or her observations to race replays. Some might say the most profitable opportunities in trip handicapping derive from the events missed by the camera (and therefore unknown to the bettors who believe they are "trip handicapping" by watching videos).
Unfortunately, I miss the days of sitting on the 3rd floor at Aqueduct for those reasons. Plus, NYRA refuses to show gallop outs on replays. I used to mark a lot of good and bad gallop outs watching races live. To top it off, the grandstand will be shuttered at Belmont now. Thanks to NYRA, live racing does not exist. Everyone is a simulcast player now
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:46 AM   #17
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What reason do they have for not showing the gallop outs?
Seems like something that would make sense to show.
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:50 AM   #18
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What reason do they have for not showing the gallop outs?
Seems like something that would make sense to show.
I don't know. Only thing I can guess is they just don't give a (dog poo poo). The horses hit the wire and all nyra shows is a zoom in on a pimple of the winning horse's nose for .7 seconds. Not enough time and not enough of a view of the field as they gallop out. To top it off, if you watch the head on, they cut the replay as the winner hits the wire.

Total Az Holes
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:52 AM   #19
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Frustrating part is, years ago, NYRA had excellent gallop out replays.... very annoying
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:00 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traynor
Great description. The source is the actual, physical race, including appearance and behavior in the paddock, post parade, and warmup. Race replays are good supplements, but should not be considered a substitute for watching the entire race live.

I have never met, heard about, or read about any serious trip handicapper that limited his or her observations to race replays. Some might say the most profitable opportunities in trip handicapping derive from the events missed by the camera (and therefore unknown to the bettors who believe they are "trip handicapping" by watching videos).
I don't know if I'm considered a trip handicapper or not, and don't care, but I won't put more than $3 or $4 on a race if I haven't watched, at minimum, the replay of each horse's last race. I have been finding all my serious bets for years now leaning heavily on what I see in the replays. I don't even open the form until I've seen at minimum each horse's last race, and then after looking through the form, I look at more replays of pertinent races in each horse's PPs.

Living in Seattle, I haven't seen a live race in probably 3 or 4 years now. Emerald Downs, after experiencing Longacres, just doesn't cut it in any way. I have been much, much more successful since I started this handicapping process, and I don't feel I'm missing anything, as far as handicapping goes, by not seeing live races. I've played only SoCal for the past 14 years (except for a little goofing off at EMD now and then years ago), and other than a week at Del Mar last summer, I've never seen live racing in Southern California.

I'm not going to blah blah you all with my financials of the past 3 or 4 years, but I will say it's been a hell of a long time since I've had to make a deposit in my TVG account. I'm able to keep a cash flow going without viewing live races while relying heavily on race replays.

As to the poster that said this takes a long time to learn, he nailed that square on the head. I've viewed literally 5,000 to 8,000 race replays per year over the past 14 years, and it was truly only about 4 or 5 years ago when I started feeling real confident about what I was seeing and truly understanding the importance of it. I know, almost instinctively now, when I see something significant in a race replay. But man, I have put in my time. I always justified it by looking at the handle each day at the SoCal track I was playing, and saying to myself, "if I could only get 0.xxx% of that handle each day, it would make this more worthwhile than any investment or employment opportunity I've ever had".

This is a horrible thing to say considering the state of this sport that I love so much, but to be successful, you don't need to experience live racing at all. But always remember, the race is run on the track, not on paper. I am living proof that you just can't, or at least I can't, get a true picture of what the horses did on the track, unless you see it. A 3/4 of a mile race, and all you get are 4 measly points of call. In my opinion, that tells you very little.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:11 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by EMD4ME
I don't know. Only thing I can guess is they just don't give a (dog poo poo). The horses hit the wire and all nyra shows is a zoom in on a pimple of the winning horse's nose for .7 seconds. Not enough time and not enough of a view of the field as they gallop out. To top it off, if you watch the head on, they cut the replay as the winner hits the wire.

Total Az Holes
Mr. Serling, can't you help with this? That's ridiculous, and a serious disservice to the NYRA bettors. That's crazy. CalRacing.com sometimes shows them getting into the winner's circle in their replays. They always show it, at minimum, up to when the race is called official.

The head-on replay is a crime not showing them all at least crossing the finish line.

Is this the only source of NYRA replays?
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Old 03-30-2014, 03:38 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper
Mr. Serling, can't you help with this? That's ridiculous, and a serious disservice to the NYRA bettors. That's crazy. CalRacing.com sometimes shows them getting into the winner's circle in their replays. They always show it, at minimum, up to when the race is called official.

The head-on replay is a crime not showing them all at least crossing the finish line.

Is this the only source of NYRA replays?
It constantly amazes me that people think Andy can do-all be-all at NYRA.

Let me clue you folks in. He's the public handicapper and on-air personality at NYRA. He doesn't work in simulcasting...he doesn't work in the CCTV division...he doesn't work for track maintenance, etc. etc. etc.

If you have a beef, call the track. You would be amazed how easy it is to get some people on the phone.

There is also a nice CONTACT US page on their website, where you can focus your inquiry at any of 12 listed areas of operation + the ubiquitous "Other" category.

If you had a problem with the way NBC was televising a certain sport, would you try and contact Bob Costas for help? Or would you contact someone in charge of their sports broadcast team?

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Old 03-30-2014, 03:38 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD4ME
I don't know. Only thing I can guess is they just don't give a (dog poo poo). The horses hit the wire and all nyra shows is a zoom in on a pimple of the winning horse's nose for .7 seconds. Not enough time and not enough of a view of the field as they gallop out. To top it off, if you watch the head on, they cut the replay as the winner hits the wire.

Total Az Holes
Way to stay classy.
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:15 AM   #24
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It constantly amazes me that people think Andy can do-all be-all at NYRA.

Let me clue you folks in. He's the public handicapper and on-air personality at NYRA. He doesn't work in simulcasting...he doesn't work in the CCTV division...he doesn't work for track maintenance, etc. etc. etc.

If you have a beef, call the track. You would be amazed how easy it is to get some people on the phone.

There is also a nice CONTACT US page on their website, where you can focus your inquiry at any of 12 listed areas of operation + the ubiquitous "Other" category.

If you had a problem with the way NBC was televising a certain sport, would you try and contact Bob Costas for help? Or would you contact someone in charge of their sports broadcast team?
I know HE can't do anything about it. Maybe just say something to somebody, that's all. You know, get the ball rolling.
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:21 AM   #25
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And yeah, if Bob Costas posted on this board, I'd ask him too.
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:44 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD4ME
I don't know. Only thing I can guess is they just don't give a (dog poo poo). The horses hit the wire and all nyra shows is a zoom in on a pimple of the winning horse's nose for .7 seconds. Not enough time and not enough of a view of the field as they gallop out. To top it off, if you watch the head on, they cut the replay as the winner hits the wire.

Total Az Holes
Almost all tracks camera guys are clowns, they don't know what people want to see, they all "zoom in" and cut off gallop outs, you need to get "lucky" to see a gallop out if you are not there live.
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:51 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
It constantly amazes me that people think Andy can do-all be-all at NYRA.

Let me clue you folks in. He's the public handicapper and on-air personality at NYRA. He doesn't work in simulcasting...he doesn't work in the CCTV division...he doesn't work for track maintenance, etc. etc. etc.

If you have a beef, call the track. You would be amazed how easy it is to get some people on the phone.

There is also a nice CONTACT US page on their website, where you can focus your inquiry at any of 12 listed areas of operation + the ubiquitous "Other" category.

If you had a problem with the way NBC was televising a certain sport, would you try and contact Bob Costas for help? Or would you contact someone in charge of their sports broadcast team?
Tracks arent likely to listen to Joe Blow calling anonymously to suggest they show the gallop outs....but if Andy Serling calls them, or even walks up to the TV room at the track, they might listen...so, i believe, that's why people might suggest for Andy to help them out. Sure, you can get someone on the phone, but why would that person listen and take action?


You're right that its not Andy's job to be a jack of all trades person, but the odds of an anonymous caller getting them to show gallop outs are about 0 percent. I would trust that Andy could get that done much easier than some random person calling and speaking to a random employee at NYRA which is why his name got brought up. Its a compliment to Andy that posters think he can do anything at NYRA.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:41 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper
I don't know if I'm considered a trip handicapper or not, and don't care, but I won't put more than $3 or $4 on a race if I haven't watched, at minimum, the replay of each horse's last race. I have been finding all my serious bets for years now leaning heavily on what I see in the replays. I don't even open the form until I've seen at minimum each horse's last race, and then after looking through the form, I look at more replays of pertinent races in each horse's PPs.

Living in Seattle, I haven't seen a live race in probably 3 or 4 years now. Emerald Downs, after experiencing Longacres, just doesn't cut it in any way. I have been much, much more successful since I started this handicapping process, and I don't feel I'm missing anything, as far as handicapping goes, by not seeing live races. I've played only SoCal for the past 14 years (except for a little goofing off at EMD now and then years ago), and other than a week at Del Mar last summer, I've never seen live racing in Southern California.

I'm not going to blah blah you all with my financials of the past 3 or 4 years, but I will say it's been a hell of a long time since I've had to make a deposit in my TVG account. I'm able to keep a cash flow going without viewing live races while relying heavily on race replays.

As to the poster that said this takes a long time to learn, he nailed that square on the head. I've viewed literally 5,000 to 8,000 race replays per year over the past 14 years, and it was truly only about 4 or 5 years ago when I started feeling real confident about what I was seeing and truly understanding the importance of it. I know, almost instinctively now, when I see something significant in a race replay. But man, I have put in my time. I always justified it by looking at the handle each day at the SoCal track I was playing, and saying to myself, "if I could only get 0.xxx% of that handle each day, it would make this more worthwhile than any investment or employment opportunity I've ever had".

This is a horrible thing to say considering the state of this sport that I love so much, but to be successful, you don't need to experience live racing at all. But always remember, the race is run on the track, not on paper. I am living proof that you just can't, or at least I can't, get a true picture of what the horses did on the track, unless you see it. A 3/4 of a mile race, and all you get are 4 measly points of call. In my opinion, that tells you very little.
Congratulations on your success. Cases like yours are why I prefaced "trip handicapper" with "serious." I would define the latter as being a full-time professional, earning the total (or at the very least the lion's share) of his or her income from wagering. That is a totally different scenario (and totally different mindset) than breaking even, making a few bucks from a pleasant, recreational activity, or making a modest profit from an activity at which most participants lose--including those with 20 or more years of practice.

I did not say one could not do well by only watching replays. The question is not how well you do, but how much better you (might be able to) do if you added watching live races to your activities. It sounds like you have a ton of skills at critically observing races. I am especially impressed by the idea that you watch races before reading PP's (that most use to frame their "observations" to match their preconceptions).

Seattle is a pleasant enough place to live, but I cannot imagine why anyone with your apparent skills and capabilities would live there full-time, in preference to spending (at least part of) the year on a major circuit. Australia and the Sha Tin/Happy Valley circuits are like candy stores for trip handicappers.
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:29 AM   #29
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Doesn't NYRA have people on the payroll who should know this already?
The people complaining are they customers......don't they talk to these people?
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:47 AM   #30
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The one thing I have to say to people first starting looking at replays. Take the time to learn the camera angles for each distance at each track. Some them present a really distorted view for a few seconds of the race. And they change from track to track even in if the tracks are in the circuit and/or run by the same people.
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