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02-27-2014, 04:59 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bossier City, Louisiana
Posts: 756
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Lucas= Great trainer. Not his fault I never get his horses right.
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02-27-2014, 10:08 PM
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#47
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisconsin
Yeah, his assistants just happened to know everything.
Todd Pletcher, Michael Maker, Kiaran McLaughlin, Dallas Stewart, Bobby Barnett, Mark Hennig, Randy Bradshw, and his own son, who was going to good. They all came in and did not learn a thing from Lukas.
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In 2008 and 2011 (for example) Lukas earnings were under 2 million. Pletcher, earns more than 10 million per year EASILY in purses.....if Lukas taught Pletcher a lot of what he knows, he may want to follow his own advice!
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02-28-2014, 12:24 AM
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#48
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,581
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hes 8/55 and that's mostly at Oaklawn with a few at FG and a start at Gulfstream. With his horseflesh in the barn he should be getting more wins at Oaklawn. If he was stabled at FG his wins would be about 3. For whatever reason he just doesn't win enough anymore.
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02-28-2014, 12:30 AM
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#49
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C'est Tout
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cajunland
Posts: 13,253
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You have to know when to play Lukas...I have found that 2nd time over the track is the time to bet.
See: Strong Mandate at Sar last year - he does this all the time.
Find a Lukas runner, scan the pp's and see how they performed 2nd time over the surface.
__________________
How do I work this?
-David Byrne
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02-28-2014, 02:41 AM
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mineshaft
hes 8/55 and that's mostly at Oaklawn with a few at FG and a start at Gulfstream. With his horseflesh in the barn he should be getting more wins at Oaklawn. If he was stabled at FG his wins would be about 3. For whatever reason he just doesn't win enough anymore.
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Some of his placements are a bit off. Broken Spell raced on dirt at Oaklawn once, and Cello, the full sister to Optimizer, did as well.
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02-28-2014, 08:12 AM
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#51
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss2002
Lucas= Great trainer. Not his fault I never get his horses right.
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Or his name...
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02-28-2014, 10:38 AM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mukwonago, WI
Posts: 3,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillriledup
In 2008 and 2011 (for example) Lukas earnings were under 2 million. Pletcher, earns more than 10 million per year EASILY in purses.....if Lukas taught Pletcher a lot of what he knows, he may want to follow his own advice!
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You see, this is the problem. I assure you that Pletcher's horses, on average, were 5 times more expensive than anything Lukas was training. But you think Lukas is the only guy out there who can talk a millionaire out of his money. You don't get it.
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"I don't always frequent message boards, but when I do, I prefer PaceAdvantage."
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02-28-2014, 11:02 AM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisconsin
You don't get it.
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Just figuring this out?
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02-28-2014, 01:32 PM
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#54
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisconsin
You see, this is the problem. I assure you that Pletcher's horses, on average, were 5 times more expensive than anything Lukas was training. But you think Lukas is the only guy out there who can talk a millionaire out of his money. You don't get it.
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So, lets recap, shall we?
I say that Lukas main success is his ability to get owners to buy him expensive horses and that he has good/great help.
YOU say that the reason his help is great is because he taught them everything (or much of) that he knows.
I point out that Pletcher wins 10 times more money in purses than Lukas
You point out that the reason Pletcher wins more is because he has much more expensive horses.
You're all over the place and you even have poor speedy convinced that "i dont get it".
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02-28-2014, 02:04 PM
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,019
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Wasn't Lukas also a champion quarter horse trainer prior to entering the thoroughbred game? Hall of Fame inductee in both sports?
No talent horseman for sure.
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02-28-2014, 02:08 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mukwonago, WI
Posts: 3,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillriledup
So, lets recap, shall we?
I say that Lukas main success is his ability to get owners to buy him expensive horses and that he has good/great help.
YOU say that the reason his help is great is because he taught them everything (or much of) that he knows.
I point out that Pletcher wins 10 times more money in purses than Lukas
You point out that the reason Pletcher wins more is because he has much more expensive horses.
You're all over the place and you even have poor speedy convinced that "i dont get it".
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And you insinuate that Lukas had success because of the expensive horses he trained, but you sure don't say that about Pletcher.
__________________
"I don't always frequent message boards, but when I do, I prefer PaceAdvantage."
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02-28-2014, 02:16 PM
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#57
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisconsin
And you insinuate that Lukas had success because of the expensive horses he trained, but you sure don't say that about Pletcher.
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I didnt say that about Pletcher because this is a thread about Lukas. My posts probably came across like i was taking a "shot" at Lukas, but the fact remains that anyone (including Pletcher) who has owners that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on horseflesh and have no problem writing million dollar checks will be "better trainers" than people who don't have these fancy yearlings.
My points were that with Lukas was that his ability to procure rich owners who had no problem spending unlimited supplies of money on yearlings was his "Strength" as a trainer moreso than his actual horsemanship skills. Now, if you believe that the reason he got all these great owners was because of his great horsemanship skills, than that is your right to believe that, i won't try and convince you otherwise.
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02-28-2014, 02:29 PM
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#58
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Just Deplorable
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lebanon, Ohio
Posts: 8,034
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Well, wouldn't you have to know some horsemanship skills in order to judge others? How many times have you wrapped an ankle, jogged several in the morning, adjusted feed schedules, or anything else that might be considered "horsemanship?" It's not the same as, say, recognizing a talented football player without having played that game. There's so much more in running a stable that you'll never know or care about. All you know about is deep-pocketed owners.
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02-28-2014, 03:27 PM
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#59
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rastajenk
Well, wouldn't you have to know some horsemanship skills in order to judge others? How many times have you wrapped an ankle, jogged several in the morning, adjusted feed schedules, or anything else that might be considered "horsemanship?" It's not the same as, say, recognizing a talented football player without having played that game. There's so much more in running a stable that you'll never know or care about. All you know about is deep-pocketed owners.
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You don't need to know how to wrap an ankle, but if you watch video tapes carefully, watch the spots trainers enter, how their horses look in the post parade in the coat and flesh, seeing what equipment they wear, seeing how straight they stay, seeing if they switch leads on cue, see if they have been taught to be game ,seeing how they react to kickback and so on and so forth. You don't have to be a "trainer" to know how to evaluate the "finished product".
As far as "running a stable" goes, a lot of that is hiring the help, paying the help, keeping things organized, keeping the barn clean, entering the horses, picking their next races, talking to jocks, calming down owners who are worried about their money, etc. There's a LOT that goes into it that's NOT "horsemanship" so trainers get a TON of credit for just keeping things in check. Nobody works harder than Wayne, he's the first guy to the track in the mornings and he's probably missed less days at the track than we can count on our 2 hands, he's a 365 guy.
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02-28-2014, 03:32 PM
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#60
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Just Deplorable
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lebanon, Ohio
Posts: 8,034
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So, having said all that (which I could agree with in part), do you still want to make the case that Lukas' horsemanship is somehow deficient?
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