Lets talk poker.....part 66

[wiffleball whizz]

With all the bs involving racing with vanned off horses etc etc etc I figure its a good time to talk cards


I'm not interested in what people on the "big poker forum" have to say as they are all idiots that blow hot air


Question

When in a 2/5 game and there's $300 in the pot and the player verbally bets $290 and doesn't make a move towards his cheques what do you make of tht....or the guy who physically puts in the 290


What about a player that's bets 200.......do u read anything in to it if he bets 2 stacks of red, 8 green or 2 black?

Just some questions as I'm gearing towards less horses and more cards

[Robert Goren]

1. I think he thinks you will fold to such a bet. The guy who puts the chips into pot expects to be called if it is not the river. On the river, it can mean several things or nothing at all. Generally gamblers are lazy and that is doubly true of poker players. While winning is great, stacking chip is work. It sometimes sinks into a player's psyche.
2. If you go to trying guess why players bet a certain color, you will probably be wrong most of the time. Most of the time, it is some sort of housekeeping. it might be a "keeping you honest bet" that he expects to lose. I have seen players use it as a fake tell, but not very often. Generally player who expect to win the hand almost all of time will bet as much as they think can get away with and they'll mix colors if they have too, but tend to bet the bigger value chips just because it easier. Player with big stacks are looking for ways to get rid of smaller value chips and will use them in riskier situations. These are tendencies, not hard and fast rules. Use at your own risk!

[DeltaLover]

What is most important in the case of a verbal bet, is that you can hear his voice..
Some times you can catch a tell by the voice tone or the breathing rhythm of your
opponent.

When physically puts his chips in the middle, in most of the cases, especially
against novices, a timid movement with very little noise, usually denotes
extreme strength, while a sound aggressive movement followed by a verbal
announcement has increased chances to be a bluff.

As far as betting with blacks while still reds or greens are available, I think
that is mostly a sign of real strength...

Besides these, I still believe that tells are overrated in most of the cases
unless you are very familiar with the villain.

[thaskalos]

I was playing in a 5-10 NL game recently...and was involved in a hand where a player reached out and made a pot-sized river bet with an obviously shaking hand. Was his hand shaking because of the fear associated with bluffing...or was it because of the excitement of holding the best hand? I had played with him for a while, and, based on what I had seen from him, I decided that it was much more likely that he had the goods. I was right...but the guy seated next to me allowed the shaking hand to bust him on that deal.

Tells can be of considerable value...but only when they are viewed in the proper context. We have to know something about the idiosencrecies of our opponent before we can make up our mind on what a particular "tell" really means.

In no-limit...a misdiagnosis can prove mighty costly.

[wiffleball whizz]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I was playing in a 5-10 NL game recently...and was involved in a hand where a player reached out and made a pot-sized river bet with an obviously shaking hand. Was his hand shaking because of the fear associated with bluffing...or was it because of the excitement of holding the best hand? I had played with him for a while, and, based on what I had seen from him, I decided that it was much more likely that he had the goods. I was right...but the guy seated next to me allowed the shaking hand to bust him on that deal.

Tells can be of considerable value...but only when they are viewed in the proper context. We have to know something about the idiosencrecies of our opponent before we can make up our mind on what a particular "tell" really means.

In no-limit...a misdiagnosis can prove mighty costly.

Agree.......I'm talking more of 1/2 and 2/5 games......as fake flags are less likely

Thask when u coming out here.....3 bedroom house and 8 min from the airport and piss cheap flights!!!!!!!!!!!!! LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO

U can get all the action you want at maryland live!!!!!!!!(!)

[DeltaLover]

As you step up, tells are loosing almost all their value, unless they are player specific.

[proximity]

Originally Posted by wiffleball whizz

Just some questions as I'm gearing towards less horses and more cards

I remember a quote from a rebate player saying something along the lines of "once you get rebates.... there's no going back."

I guess I didn't really believe that when I heard it. but now....

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by DeltaLover

As you step up, tells are loosing almost all their value, unless they are player specific.

I am not sure about that. I am sure there are fewer of them. At the bottom levels which I have played, the progression is pretty slow. I can't put a number on it, but it can't be more than 2-3% lost as they move up each level. Something like the nerviness with a strong hand disappears as the player gets use to the level. It is a rookie mistake, not a bad player mistake. I am not sure about games higher than 2-5 NL, but a 1-2 player who has stopped doing at 1-2 will almost always start doing it again for a while when they move up to 2-5 for the first time. Maybe the time he continues to it shortens as he moves up. It is generally regarded as the surest tell out there and almost everybody does it when they start. It must be pretty hard to fake as I have never seen it faked and I have never seen a player bluffing doing it. You would think sometimes a bluffer would show it, if they do, it is not very often. Go back and try and recall when the last time you saw a bluffer nervous.

[wiffleball whizz]

Stupid comment alert

Starting to think 5/10nl plays smaller then 2/5.......80 percent of the time