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Old 07-08-2013, 10:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
You should start a thread about Bris it appears!
BRIS happens to be what I use and know. I'm sure there are other all encompassing ratings out there. The question is what does TimeForm-US offer or considers that these other systems don't? Like I said, there might be value for horses shipping in from outside North America. Otherwise, I'm not seeing their value.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:55 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by GMB@BP
You should start a thread about Bris it appears!
Excellent point.....
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:56 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Grits
Excellent point.....
Small mind!
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capper Al
Small mind!
You're touting Bris, which, yes, many of us use in conjunction, in the past with Cj's Pace Figures. You haven't any real knowledge of TimeFormUS, yet you're able to form an opinion with one quick look. I'm not getting into a pissing match with you. But regaling Bris is not what the thread is about. Mind--less.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grits
You're touting Bris, which, yes, many of us use in conjunction, in the past with Cj's Pace Figures. You haven't any real knowledge of TimeFormUS, yet you're able to form an opinion with one quick look. I'm not getting into a pissing match with you. But regaling Bris is not what the thread is about. Mind--less.

All he said was that he didn't need a new number for himself. I think he was positive about the idea of getting help with foreign shippers. I didn't see his post as being negative. Maybe y'all have butted heads before.

What are Cj's Pace Figures? A reference no doubt to the poster cj.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:51 AM   #21
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As with all new things there will be a steep learning curve. In trying to guess whether Timeform would be worth such effort, I scanned through their table listing results from playing the best Timeform spotlight figures on 9190 U.S. races (March 15 to June 11, 2013).

Unfortunately, while they show each horse that was bet, they only list the number of wins (29.5%) and in the money (63%) rates. If their numbers mostly pick favorites, it doesn't look good. Missing is the what the horses paid. Don't you think if they had a positive ROI for this test they would have highlighted it?

I'm a little skeptical. Is anyone using their numbers at this time?
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPRanger
All he said was that he didn't need a new number for himself. I think he was positive about the idea of getting help with foreign shippers. I didn't see his post as being negative.
I couldn't care any less, and I'll leave it up to you guys.

I don't feel like analyzing message board etiquette.
I've got races to analyze, a yard to cut and some errands to run.

There's a certain level of common sense that if a new idea is presented with some level of legitimacy, that you try to be constructive with your comments.

I figure we are all at different levels of skill and commitment and even preferences regarding which tools we use.

anyway... Timeform-US ? sounds like an idea that has some promise. cool.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:40 PM   #23
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Thumbs up

If CJ vouches for it that's good enough for me. Nobody beats his figures.


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Old 07-08-2013, 12:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomOnTour
CJ - are you working for/with Timeform US?

your post said you are "part of this"
Yes, I am the figure maker and had some input on the design. The color coding, for example, was a staple of my program.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPRanger
I prefer separate pace and speed figures to a single conglomerated number. I would miss the interplay between projected race shapes for my contenders. I don't always use this measure but it is in my arsenal. Yes, I understand they will offer a separate pace figure in the future. But the main big one number idea seems like something to attract new inexperienced players. That would be a good thing.
This will definitely be added and soon.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Yes, I am the figure maker and had some input on the design. The color coding, for example, was a staple of my program.
I like the clarity of presentation in their basic pp (as of now they have 2 free races per day).

for someone who views a lot of PPs online, I like the easy-on-eyes presentation style (as opposed to drf/bris/equibase pdf pps). Of course data base users could easily modify this (and use color formatting inside excel) but I am not yet at that stage so I like this one mainly for the tablet viewing angle. I wrote this note before cj's post about color coding, but didnt post it yet.

drf formulator is also good (v good in fact) but price is the issue there for me.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capper Al
BRIS happens to be what I use and know. I'm sure there are other all encompassing ratings out there. The question is what does TimeForm-US offer or considers that these other systems don't? Like I said, there might be value for horses shipping in from outside North America. Otherwise, I'm not seeing their value.
Well, again I'm biased, but does BRIS offer anything like the Pace Projector I posted here? Also, you can't possibly judge if TUS numbers are as good or better until you try them. It is certainly an advantage that TUS numbers have human intervention, not sure anybody could argue that.

I would also say the PPs are just plain easier to read. They use the full chart comment instead of the brief comment. The color coding is a bonus. They are updated on the fly for scratches. And best yet, they won't be stagnant. The PPs will evolve to what players want in 2013, not live in 1993.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aner
As with all new things there will be a steep learning curve. In trying to guess whether Timeform would be worth such effort, I scanned through their table listing results from playing the best Timeform spotlight figures on 9190 U.S. races (March 15 to June 11, 2013).

Unfortunately, while they show each horse that was bet, they only list the number of wins (29.5%) and in the money (63%) rates. If their numbers mostly pick favorites, it doesn't look good. Missing is the what the horses paid. Don't you think if they had a positive ROI for this test they would have highlighted it?

I'm a little skeptical. Is anyone using their numbers at this time?
I'd give you the numbers if I had them. I would guess they don't have a + ROI over such a huge number of races, but I don't think it was tested yet. One of the goals of the numbers is to actually tell you which horses ran fastest, not which horses are the best value. Those are two very different things.

I could probably produce a figure that would be close to a break even ROI over a very large set of races, but would win less than 10% of the time. This is not what customers want in my opinion.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Well, again I'm biased, but does BRIS offer anything like the Pace Projector I posted here? Also, you can't possibly judge if TUS numbers are as good or better until you try them. It is certainly an advantage that TUS numbers have human intervention, not sure anybody could argue that.

I would also say the PPs are just plain easier to read. They use the full chart comment instead of the brief comment. The color coding is a bonus. They are updated on the fly for scratches. And best yet, they won't be stagnant. The PPs will evolve to what players want in 2013, not live in 1993.
I signed up for the free pps

Exceeded my expectations.

pretty cool. I liked the interface, and the Pace Projector looks interesting.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Yes, I am the figure maker and had some input on the design. The color coding, for example, was a staple of my program.
Congrats CJ - sounds like a good gig
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