Thomas Amoss

[rastajenk]

Originally Posted by cj

I have no interest in betting contests where the biggest factors are humans.

You have always been betting on humans. Are you so into your numbers that you've never realized that? That can't be.

A race result is the product of hundreds of independent human decisions of all kinds at all levels. It has always been so. When did human involvement become a bad thing, when it's such a necessary thing?

[JustRalph]

My handle is almost nil now.

We have been saying this same shit for ten years.

The sport is so fragmented and the players unwilling to make any changes, you could change this board over to Tennis and most probably would'nt give a shit.

[nijinski]

Amoss has owners with capitol . Respectable people as well .

The late John Franks was a class act , . I happen to like Maggi Moss as well .

When the funds are there , the barn can run well , the horses eat the best

feed and munch on quality alfalfa .

Easy guys , Methocarbomol is a muscle relaxer . It shouldn't be given in

a large dose while racing , but you don't get a buzz from it .

[bob60566]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

And I mean THIS in all sincerity:

We horseplayers are a peculiar lot. We resent that the industry treats us like addicted degenerates...but we do nothing to get them to change their minds about us.

We lament that there is no unity in the game...but we don't realize that WE -- the "customers" -- are even more divided and disjointed than THEY are!

We are much more than just spectators in this game; we are ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS! As vital as any trainer or jockey could ever be! But we accept all the injustices that come our way without doing anything about it except complain endlessly.

We say that the player has no "voice" in this game...but that's not true. The player HAS a voice in this game; he speaks with his wagered dollars!

I don't know how many serious players there are in this game, but I do know that almost all the serious players agree that the game is now being run with the TRAINERS in mind...and the serious player has become less than an afterthought. And yet, we continue patronizing this game...as if we were really the captive audience that they consider us to be.

Sure...the mutuel pools have declined in recent years. But the decline has been too gradual...and has sent the wrong message. The industry thinks that the failing economy and the proliferation of other forms of legalized gambling are the main culprits for the declining mutuel pools. They don't see it as a result of the DISGUST that the players have developed for this game, as it's currently being run.

Why can't ALL the serious players in this country abstain from betting, TOTALLY, for a month or so...so we could show the industry that we mean business...and that we are a force to be reckoned with -- instead of the fools that they think we are?

Are we afraid that we might rediscover our families for a little while? Can't we find something else to do for a little while...just to prove a point?

Don't we know that only through some sort of sacrifice can we ever get what we really want?

But no. We are unwilling to do anything constructive to improve our standing in the game...choosing instead to complain endlessly -- FOR YEARS.

Without realizing that we've become our own worst enemies...

Excellent post
But have the yearly handle in racing in North America not been in steady decline 30% since the peak in late seventies, that is close to three decades ago.

[cj]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

You have always been betting on humans. Are you so into your numbers that you've never realized that? That can't be.

A race result is the product of hundreds of independent human decisions of all kinds at all levels. It has always been so. When did human involvement become a bad thing, when it's such a necessary thing?

Try reading my post again before using sarcasm. Where did I say I wasn't betting on humans?

What I said was there are too many races where humans are the #1 factor in the outcome. I've been doing this a LONG time, and humans never won regularly @ 35-40% all around the country. I think making numbers gives me an even better perspective. I know when new acquisitions won because they were spotted well, and I also know when they ran 12 lengths faster than they ever have at the age of 7.

Sadly, the latter is much more common. Sometimes it is just a clueless prior trainer, but that is the exception, not the rule.

[Beachbabe]

On a related matter; was watching HRTV saturday and after owner Frank Calabrese won another race, trained by the ever-popular Kirk Ziadie; host, Peter Lurie went on for a full minute about how much he admired owners such as Calabrese and Midwest Thoroughbreds because they knew "how to play the claiming game". I mean he sounded like a paid commercial for these owners almost to the point of fawning giddiness.

Hey Pete, get your head out of your azz & you'll see what "game" these guys are really playing.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Beachbabe

On a related matter; was watching HRTV saturday and after owner Frank Calabrese won another race, trained by the ever-popular Kirk Ziadie; host, Peter Lawrie (sp?) went on for a full minute about how much he admired owners such as Calabrese and Midwest Thoroughbreds because they knew "how to play the claiming game". I mean he sounded like a paid commercial for these owners almost to the point of fawning giddiness.

Hey Pete, get your head out of your azz & you'll see what "game" these guys are really playing.

Those guys are on TV to promote gambling. They are never going to do something to dissuade bettors if they like working.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by Beachbabe

On a related matter; was watching HRTV saturday and after owner Frank Calabrese won another race, trained by the ever-popular Kirk Ziadie; host, Peter Lurie went on for a full minute about how much he admired owners such as Calabrese and Midwest Thoroughbreds because they knew "how to play the claiming game". I mean he sounded like a paid commercial for these owners almost to the point of fawning giddiness.

Hey Pete, get your head out of your azz & you'll see what "game" these guys are really playing.

He was at it again today, urging bettors to pour money into the 52% takeout laden Rainbow 6.

[Beachbabe]

Originally Posted by cj

Those guys are on TV to promote gambling. They are never going to do something to dissuade bettors if they like working.

CJ, I think you're missing my point. I understand that they will promote gambling. I have no problem with a host going on about the Rainbow 6 carryover; I have no problem with hosts handicapping every race; I have no problem with a host extolling the virtues of a particular racetrack.

What I do have a problem with is a host who can go on & on about how cogent and shrewd a couple of ( and trying not to be incendiary) "questionable" owners/trainers "play the game".
I don't think that does anything to promote gambling. JMHO.

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by nijinski

Amoss has owners with capitol.

Yeah, he's got big money Maggie Moss in his corner, an owner and lawyer.

Maggie Moss: 32 out of 39 horses in the money this year.

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by tzipi

Yeah, he's got big money Maggie Moss in his corner, an owner and lawyer.

Maggie Moss: 32 out of 39 horses in the money this year.

She is a very generous supporter of horse rescue and retirement . Very much involved and active in getting horses off the track that are in need .
On the the other hand , you think her horses are winning due to a cheating edge . It doesn't make sense to me.

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by nijinski

She is a very generous supporter of horse rescue and retirement . Very much involved and active in getting horses off the track that are in need .
On the the other hand , you think her horses are winning due to a cheating edge . It doesn't make sense to me.

No, I know she does involve in RUN DOWN horse retirement. I was talking about her ITM % this year. 32 out of 39 horses!

Plus, isn't one of her main trainers and clients Tommy Amoss? What's his record in numerous states with drug violations/cheating?


Oh by the way...22 of her 39 starters have finished FIRST this year. Sounds normal Nijinski, right? Geez

[PICSIX]

Originally Posted by tzipi

No, I know she does involve in horse retirement. I was talking about her ITM % this year. 32 out of 39 horses!

Plus, isn't one of her main trainers and clients Tommy Amoss? What's his record in numerous states with drug violations/cheating?


Oh by the way...22 of her 39 have finished FIRST this year. Sounds normal Nijinski, right?

http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com/d...learsearch=YES

According to this database he has 15.

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by tzipi

No, I know she does involve in horse retirement. I was talking about her ITM % this year. 32 out of 39 horses!

Plus , isn't one of her main trainers and clients Tommy Amoss? What's his record in numerous states with drug violations/cheating?

Naprosyn yes and Methocarbomol overages . That's not something he should be proud of but they will not make a slow horse run any faster .
they are legal at certain levels .

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by nijinski

Naprosyn yes and Methocarbomol overages . That's not something he should be proud of but they will not make a slow horse run any faster .
they are legal at certain levels .

OK that's fine, Amoss is clean with all his infractions in multiple states and her 22 wins out of 39 starters is clean. I'll say it's a crazy ITM% and Win% but we'll have to agree to disagree Nijinsky .