Religion II

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Box, I will not debate your endless biblical passages.
One or two at a time please. Each requires more thought than you think.

How about something from your own life and understanding instead?
Even better how about addressing my observation?

After a person has been given the gift of eternal life by God, he wants to die to himself so that he can know Christ better and live His life.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Numerous prophecies concerning the coming Messiah (both as God's Suffering Servant and Victorious King are in the NT, which Jesus fulfilled and is fulfilling.

http://www.gordonconwell.edu/resourc...-Testament.cfm

You must stretch the OT in order for you to salvage your claim. But for the sake of your argument I'll go along with your back fitting. Nevertheless yolu,

Originally Posted by you

Actually, salvation (in all its form) it is a biblical term -- employed in both the Old and New Testaments.

...neglect what the real underlying meanings of salvation are, and what it is referring to. For instance in the Noah and the Ark story, in addition to a small segment of humanity, Noah saved 2 of every "clean" animal....

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female"....Genesis 7:2

Since we know historically, and archaeologically the flood story is an exaggeration of smaller floods in earlier Mesopotamia, and a continuation of the Gilgamesh fable, the Hebrew Noah and the Ark metaphorical version, is mainly about saving that which should be saved in the "microcosm" of one man.

A re-telling of a repeating commonality found in many non-Abrahamic ways and religions. A metaphor pointing to the final stages of one individual's "Transformation of Consciousness and Being" Maurice Nicoll spoke of, or "Metanoia".

Transformation is at the core of almost all religions and parts of one's being will be discarded, and other parts will be retained or SAVED. So when you speak of

Originally Posted by you

However, I know enough about the world's religions to know that none of them, save for God's revealed religion in the bible, teach that man is saved solely by God's grace alone through faith.

You apparently do not know the full meaning of who and what must be saved. The metaphor of the metamorphosis of a baby caterpillar going into a cocoon and then morphing into a beautiful butterfly is common in eastern thought. In many case preceding the Judaeo-Christian religions.

So "saving" is not unique to Christianity. The essence or a baby or "seed" that is cultivated, is what must be saved, and the earlier stages of that babies unknowingness and immaturity that develops in a clumsy fashion, is what must be discarded.The seed's rough husk.

Before we can separate the wheat from the chaff, we must first discern the chaff. The wheat is then "saved"

As regards to the unity of all religions and the tower of Babel...

...There is also a corresponding meaning of Noah, on a larger scale of humanity as a whole.The macrocosm. At a few points in pre-history, the esoteric community practiced "saving" their acquired knowledge knowing barbarism would soon drown out their painstaking work and efforts. And would build an "Ark" to withstand the world drowning or submerging

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

You must stretch the OT in order for you to salvage your claim. But for the sake of your argument I'll go along with your back fitting. Nevertheless yolu,
...neglect what the real underlying meanings of salvation are, and what it is referring to. For instance in the Noah and the Ark story, in addition to a small segment of humanity, Noah saved 2 of every "clean" animal....

"Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female"....Genesis 7:2

Since we know historically, and archaeologically the flood story is an exaggeration of smaller floods in earlier Mesopotamia, and a continuation of the Gilgamesh fable, the Hebrew Noah and the Ark metaphorical version, is mainly about saving that which should be saved in the "microcosm" of one man.

A re-telling of a repeating commonality found in many non-Abrahamic ways and religions. A metaphor pointing to the final stages of one individual's "Transformation of Consciousness and Being" Maurice Nicoll spoke of, or "Metanoia".

Transformation is at the core of almost all religions and parts of one's being will be discarded, and other parts will be retained or SAVED. So when you speak of
You apparently do not know the full meaning of who and what must be saved. The metaphor of the metamorphosis of a baby caterpillar going into a cocoon and then morphing into a beautiful butterfly is common in eastern thought. In many case preceding the Judaeo-Christian religions.

So "saving" is not unique to Christianity. The essence or a baby or "seed" that is cultivated, is what must be saved, and the earlier stages of that babies unknowingness and immaturity that develops in a clumsy fashion, is what must be discarded.The seed's rough husk.

Before we can separate the wheat from the chaff, we must first discern the chaff. The wheat is then "saved"

As regards to the unity of all religions and the tower of Babel...

...There is also a corresponding meaning of Noah, on a larger scale of humanity as a whole.The macrocosm. At a few points in pre-history, the esoteric community practiced "saving" their acquired knowledge knowing barbarism would soon drown out their painstaking work and efforts. And would build an "Ark" to withstand the world drowning or submerging

The real underlying meaning(s) to salvation is that God sent Jesus into the world to save man from Penalty of sin, the Power of Sin and ultimately from the Presence of sin.

And the Ark thingy really wasn't about animals per se. It was far more about the eight human beings who were saved in and by the Ark -- the Ark being a type of Christ. And the flood water being a type of New Covenant baptism.

1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you — not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience — through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
NASB

And,

Heb 11:7
7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
NASB

Did you catch that? God was primarily interested in saving Noah's household. Just like God, through Moses, was interested in saving the ancient Hebrews from their chains of slavery (a type of sinful nature) by wicked Pharaoh (a type of Satan) who has bound the entire world to sin.

So...yeah, I know what salvation is all about. After all, it pleased God to save a miserable wretch like me!

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by boxcar

After a person has been given the gift of eternal life by God, he wants to die to himself so that he can know Christ better and live His life.

What does one do in heaven? I mean like, if you love horseracing do they have a horseracing section where you bet and never lose? Get drunk but never have a hangover? Play golf all the time with your new friends? What is heaven really like.

Or is it just coffee with Jesus all the time?

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

What does one do in heaven? I mean like, if you love horseracing do they have a horseracing section where you bet and never lose? Get drunk but never have a hangover? Play golf all the time with your new friends? What is heaven really like.

Or is it just coffee with Jesus all the time?

Greetings, HOH.

I'm not interested in polemics with anyone, but simply addressing for any curious, these essentially Catholic reflections that reveal what many Christians accept about "what heaven is like", from centuries of contemplation, leaning heavily on Augustine, Aquinas et.al. Two common misconceptions usually flow from imagination; time (correctly understood as "Aeviternity)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aevum

...and activity..."The soul's changeless contemplation of the Blessed Trinity will be the dominating reality...", etc.

http://www.katapi.org.uk/TandS/Ch24.html#IV

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

What does one do in heaven? I mean like, if you love horseracing do they have a horseracing section where you bet and never lose? Get drunk but never have a hangover? Play golf all the time with your new friends? What is heaven really like.

Or is it just coffee with Jesus all the time?

I don't know what happens in heaven...but I got an idea of what HELL is like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77ueTRaYTwg

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I know enough about the world's religions to know that none of them, save for God's revealed religion in the bible, teach that man is saved solely by God's grace alone through faith.

What religions besides Christianity teach that man needs salvation?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Did you catch that? God was primarily interested in saving Noah's household. Just like God, through Moses, was interested in saving the ancient Hebrews from their chains of slavery (a type of sinful nature) by wicked Pharaoh (a type of Satan) who has bound the entire world to sin.

Did the Flood account actually happen? Did Noah do this stuff literally or is the entire story a fable, a metaphor perhaps for something other than the saving of Noah and his household?

Gee, let my guess.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

What does one do in heaven? I mean like, if you love horseracing do they have a horseracing section where you bet and never lose? Get drunk but never have a hangover? Play golf all the time with your new friends? What is heaven really like.

Or is it just coffee with Jesus all the time?

1 Cor 2:9
9 but just as it is written,

"Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him."
NASB

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Did the Flood account actually happen? Did Noah do this stuff literally or is the entire story a fable, a metaphor perhaps for something other than the saving of Noah and his household?

Gee, let my guess.

Jesus thought the Flood was an historical event. That's good enough for me.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

What religions besides Christianity teach that man needs salvation?

Several.

https://www.comparativereligion.com/salvation.html

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Actually, salvation (in all its form) it is a biblical term -- employed in both the Old and New Testaments.

Not in all all it's forms.

"Almost people belonging to all faiths accept the fact that attaining salvation is the end of the spiritual journey. They have settled on to the fact that without achieving salvation, they will not be free from the cycle of death and birth."

As I said your version of salvation is specific to your Christiana "jargon". Even with a passing knowledge of the world's religions other than Christianity, you would know this. If you studied other religions you might realize all roads lead to Rome, and not for the "passion".

For instance.....

Buddhism
Buddhism considers ignorance instead of sin as the roadblock to salvation and believes that salvation (Nirvana)is "cosmic" consciousness.

Sikhism on Salvation
Sikh Gurus preached that all humans are entitled to reach the abode of god and strive hard to reach there through our pure actions as world is a temporary place to live in and eventually we all would perish.

Hinduism
According to Hinduism, Moksha (Salvation) is the ultimate purpose of life and suggests scores of ways to attain it. Meditation would be one of many

It could be argued reasonably on it's surface, that the primary purpose of all religions is to provide salvation for their adherents, and the existence of many different religions indicates that there is a great variety of opinion about what constitutes salvation and the means of achieving it.

I think finding commonalities, no matter how different religions appear on the surface, is worth way more than being a religious chauvinist and launching wars of words and actions against other religious chauvinists.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Several.

https://www.comparativereligion.com/salvation.html

A personal god is missing from almost all of them except the Abrahamic. Some don't even speak of the Abrahamic father/god, let alone a personal guide.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Jesus thought the Flood was an historical event. That's good enough for me.

Floods were historical events in Mesopotamia. A gigantic global flood as in Noah and the ark, was not.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Not in all all it's forms.

"Almost people belonging to all faiths accept the fact that attaining salvation is the end of the spiritual journey. They have settled on to the fact that without achieving salvation, they will not be free from the cycle of death and birth."

Major Difference Number One: The bible doesn't teach any such cycle. It teaches that after this life comes the Judgment.

As I said your version of salvation is specific to your Christiana "jargon". Even with a passing knowledge of the world's religions other than Christianity, you would know this. If you studied other religions you might realize all roads lead to Rome, and not for the "passion".

For instance.....

Buddhism
Buddhism considers ignorance instead of sin as the roadblock to salvation and believes that salvation (Nirvana)is "cosmic" consciousness.

Major Difference Number Two: The bible teaches that ignorance is a by-product of sin -- in fact, ignorance is consequence of man's natrual spiritual condition which is Death. For example, a blind man is "ignorant" of the path he is walking because he walks in darkness.

Sikhism on Salvation
Sikh Gurus preached that all humans are entitled to reach the abode of god and strive hard to reach there through our pure actions as world is a temporary place to live in and eventually we all would perish.

Major Differences Numbers Three and Four:

The bible teaches that sinners are "entitled" to God's righteous judgment.

And the bible also teaches that neither our good works or keeping the law will win us favor with God, since all sin is infinitely offensive to Him. The remedy to sin's penalty, therefore, must be infinitely just, which Christ alone satisfied on behalf God's people by the merits of his sinless life and his sacrificial work on the Cross.

Hinduism
According to Hinduism, Moksha (Salvation) is the ultimate purpose of life and suggests scores of ways to attain it. Meditation would be one of many

Major Difference Number Five:

The bible teaches that only faith in God, through Christ, and repentance from our sins can save us. God alone is the Savior of men, through his Son Jesus Christ.

It could be argued reasonably on it's surface, that the primary purpose of all religions is to provide salvation for their adherents, and the existence of many different religions indicates that there is a great variety of opinion about what constitutes salvation and the means of achieving it.

I think finding commonalities, no matter how different religions appear on the surface, is worth way more than being a religious chauvinist and launching wars of words and actions against other religious chauvinists.

These differences are not merely superficial. They are real, profound and deep differences. What is superficial and cosmetic, however, are the "commonalities".