Religion II

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You don't have to have made an explicit claim; you logically inferred it.

You are lying for Jesus. My central thesis is that there is no evidence for any deity. The uncertainty principle is a scientific principle, not a sentient being.

Your anti-science is showing. Next you'll become a flat earther.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

What kind of Christian would I be if I didn't give warnings to unbelievers?

What kind of a Christian would you be if you went down to your local movie theatre, bought a ticket to a popular movie, then shouted "fire" in the middle of the show just to warn the others of the possibility that there might actually be a fire.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

You are lying for Jesus. My central thesis is that there is no evidence for any deity. The uncertainty principle is a scientific principle, not a sentient being.

Your anti-science is showing. Next you'll become a flat earther.

And your second central thesis is that we can't be certain of anything because of your beloved "scientific" Uncertainty Principle -- the principle that allows all adherents to be skeptics extraordinaire.

And the gods that are the products of carnal minds don't have to be "sentient". People have all kinds of idols: money, sex, fame, power, possessions, etc., etc.

And if Jesus didn't exist, you need to give us a coherent explanation for how the Jews allowed the Jesus sect to grossly insult them with their gospel message that would have been abhorrent to any self-respecting Jew. Where are all the ancient Jewish writings that refute the Jesus movement?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

What kind of a Christian would you be if you went down to your local movie theatre, bought a ticket to a popular movie, then shouted "fire" in the middle of the show just to warn the others of the possibility that there might actually be a fire.

I don't share the gospel with anyone based on mere possibilities. I share based on the sure Word of God, and what I know to be true. Such is the nature of God's gift of faith.

Prov 11:30
30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
And he who is wise wins souls.
NASB

And,

Heb 11:1-2
11 1. Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
NIV

[VigorsTheGrey]

It’s the target of that faith that is surely madness...to believe that some itinerant oriental rabble-rouser is in fact the only God, the same only God that is claimed to have created the Universe...is INSANITY...what ever you called it, it amounts to the same twisted idea...but go ahead HAVE FAITH...and spread the ‘gospel’...but...

...true religion ought to be about what is actually true, not just something “hoped for” or “certain, but unseen (unprovable)...

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

It’s the target of that faith that is surely madness...to believe that some itinerant oriental rabble-rouser is in fact the only God, the same only God that is claimed to have created the Universe...is INSANITY...what ever you called it, it amounts to the same twisted idea...but go ahead HAVE FAITH...and spread the ‘gospel’...but...

...true religion ought to be about what is actually true, not just something “hoped for” or “certain, but unseen (unprovable)...

God's Word is Truth (Jn 17:17).

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by boxcar

God's Word is Truth (Jn 17:17).

The Words of Gods are Lies (Vigors 1:1)

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

(Vigors 1:1)

Fallibly inspired by the Evil One.

[thaskalos]

Anyone here familiar with the works of Emanuel Swedenborg and Rudolf Steiner?

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Anyone here familiar with the works of Emanuel Swedenborg and Rudolf Steiner?

Rick Warren is a big fan of Swedenborg and models his ministry after him.

Steiner was a Goethe devotee and founded his own spiritual movement after him.

[Light]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Anyone here familiar with the works of Emanuel Swedenborg and Rudolf Steiner?

I watch this webcast called "Swedenborg and Life" sometimes. This is how I stumbled upon learning about this remarkable person. All their shows center around Swedenborg. This is a good one to start with:

YouTube

Swedenborg 101: The Basic Nature of Everything - Swedenborg and Life

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I know I am one of God's elect and I boast of his sovereign grace in choosing to save me.

One thing I do know is that you cannot be "chosen" unless your heart is open and you treat others with love and respect. With the feedback you get you should be ashamed of yourself.

Originally Posted by boxcar

You, on the other hand, boast that you have all this great knowledge of spirituality and how it works and that you don't need Christ's stinkin' salvation.

I don't need an external salvation when I already have an internal salvation which is the only true salvation there is.

I've told you before that I don't have the "separation" that you have between God and self or Jesus and self. They are within me and are directly teaching me and guiding each moment of my existence. And I am not special because of that. I am only fortunate enough to be conscious of it.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And if Jesus didn't exist, you need to give us a coherent explanation for how the Jews allowed the Jesus sect to grossly insult them with their gospel message that would have been abhorrent to any self-respecting Jew. Where are all the ancient Jewish writings that refute the Jesus movement?

Argumentum ad nauseam! This has been covered before. Your question is another facet of the Gish Gallop, viz., pretend your opponent has not answered your question and ask it again, over and over.

In the past you have made the explicit claim that the Christian faith spread rapidly. But you have provided no evidence outside Christian propaganda to support this. And to support it you must provide evidence that it spread more rapidly than other new religions. If you cannot support that then the rate at which Christianity spread is irrelevant.

Implicit in your question are two other claims: (1)the gospel message was abhorrent to the Jews and (2)anti-Jesus writings existed. Since you are the one making said claims the burden of proof is yours.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

One thing I do know is that you cannot be "chosen" unless your heart is open and you treat others with love and respect. With the feedback you get you should be ashamed of yourself.

You're not feeling my "love and respect"? How much more can I love you when I keep on telling you that your heart is self-deceived and that a true disciple of Christ believes everything God says.

I don't need an external salvation when I already have an internal salvation which is the only true salvation there is.

So, tell us more of this "true salvation" of yours which is "internal". From what, specifically, were you saved internally?

I've told you before that I don't have the "separation" that you have between God and self or Jesus and self. They are within me and are directly teaching me and guiding each moment of my existence. And I am not special because of that. I am only fortunate enough to be conscious of it.

Tell us: What have you learned from them directly?

And since you think the kingdom of God is "within in", then surely you must believe the Holy Spirit is within you as well, right? After all, it is written:

Rom 14:17
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
NASB

So, do you think you have the Holy Spirit living within you?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Argumentum ad nauseam! This has been covered before. Your question is another facet of the Gish Gallop, viz., pretend your opponent has not answered your question and ask it again, over and over.

In the past you have made the explicit claim that the Christian faith spread rapidly. But you have provided no evidence outside Christian propaganda to support this. And to support it you must provide evidence that it spread more rapidly than other new religions. If you cannot support that then the rate at which Christianity spread is irrelevant.

Implicit in your question are two other claims: (1)the gospel message was abhorrent to the Jews and (2)anti-Jesus writings existed. Since you are the one making said claims the burden of proof is yours.

The I wrote a multi-part series using the Book of Acts to show that the gospel of Jesus Christ spread rapidly from Jerusalem, to Judea, to Samaria, to various parts of Asia Minor and to Spain and Italy all before 70 A.D. And moreover, HOW it was able to do this.

And, yes, the Gospel Message was abhorrent to Jews (and still is to this day to very many of them!!!), and I established this also from the Book of Acts, and also from an extra-biblical Jewish writing that revealed the Jewish mindset regarding the Jewish Messiah and how victorious and glorious they thought he would be, having no conception of a crucified Messiah -- a teaching which made the Gospel abhorrent to the vast majority of Jews.

Also, I don't have to compare the spread of the Gospel with any other religion. We're not talking comparative religions here.

Finally, I'm saying that lazy-minded theory that Christ never existed is nothing more than a figment of your fanciful imagination that has no support whatsoever in fact. If Christ never existed, then surely the Jews were the most stupid people on the planet for allowing the Gospel of Christ to spread throughout the world unhindered and unabated. Why didn't devout first century Jews write apologetics defending OT Judaism and refuting the Jesus sect, and protect their own people from the sect's proselytizing efforts? This could have saved millions of Jews an awful lot of heartaches and lives since the first century until now. Even to this day, Jews are hated, generally, by the world. The world blames the Jews for bringing this guy Jesus into the world, and as a consequence for having many billions of people like myself believe on Him for these last 2,000 years, and we believers, in turn, are considered by the world to be a thorn in its side because gospel-preaching convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgment, which the world really doesn't appreciate!

So...I'm not saying ancient Jewish antichrist writings existed. To the contrary! I'm saying there is zero evidence of any, which is beyond bizarre since this non-existent Christ has been no small thorn in the Jews' side for nearly 2,000 years.

Are you so blind that you cannot see that there is a huge incongruity here between ancient Jews and modern Jews? There is no shortage of modern Jewish literature that attempts to refute the Messianic status of Jesus; yet, nothing of this nature has been discovered from antiquity. And the attitude of most Jews today toward Jesus is no different than what scripture records was the sentiment of the ancient Jews toward Jesus and his followers. So...we have the same antichrist attitude that has been passed down all these centuries, but absent ancient writings. (Talk about a group being a day late and a dollar short.)

You have absolutely no answer as to why the first century Jews were deafeningly silent on such a highly charged, controversial figure like Jesus Christ -- most especially when he supposedly didn't exist, and to add more insult to injury, his sect's teachings were thought by unbelieving Jews to run counter to their Law and the Prophets (i.e. the OT). And then when we contrast this with the careful documentation in the bible plus the existence of numerous extra-biblical Christian writings, which affirm the testimony of scripture that the Gospel would indeed spread throughout the world, we can only reach one reasonable and logical conclusion: Jesus Christ did indeed come into this world as prophesied in the OT.