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02-21-2022, 01:42 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Congratulations to 2021 Kentucky Derby Winner Mandaloun!
He deserves his own thread, I think.
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02-21-2022, 02:20 PM
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#2
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 324
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Question
do the 2nd,3rd,4th place finishers move up and get the purse?
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02-21-2022, 02:32 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisk Urging
Question
do the 2nd,3rd,4th place finishers move up and get the purse?
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yes
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02-21-2022, 02:43 PM
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#4
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,842
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But not the bettors.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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02-21-2022, 03:15 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,610
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Not that it matters because he had to get DQ'd, but imo it's very likely the horse would have won if he was clean Derby day. He ran just fine clean after that, moved forward, and proved his quality. If you want to argue Baffert was using something else, you still have to catch him.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
Last edited by classhandicapper; 02-21-2022 at 03:17 PM.
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02-21-2022, 03:18 PM
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#6
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
But not the bettors.
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I got it!! !
Stoopin' Sam saved over $10,000 in Mandaloun tickets
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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02-21-2022, 03:21 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
Not that it matters because he had to get DQ'd, but imo it's very likely the horse would have won if he was clean Derby day. He ran just fine clean after that, moved forward, and proved his quality. If you want to argue Baffert was using something else, you still have to catch him.
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Well he also dropped dead, which could mean... he still wasn't clean.
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02-21-2022, 04:29 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
Well he also dropped dead, which could mean... he still wasn't clean.
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I know your view and the view of many horseplayers. That's speculation. You still have to catch him. If anything, the evidence from LIG and Maximum Security suggests he's using therapeutics irresponsibly and not using clear cut illegal PEDs. But a few more high profile horses are likely to change hands soon and we'll see more. I took a good look at some of the high profile horses switched to him in recent years. I didn't see any consistent pattern of huge move ups. Country Grammar jumped up a lot off a move from Chad Brown, but he was an improving 3yo coming off a long layoff at 4.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
Last edited by classhandicapper; 02-21-2022 at 04:38 PM.
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02-21-2022, 05:27 PM
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#9
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
I know your view and the view of many horseplayers. That's speculation. You still have to catch him. If anything, the evidence from LIG and Maximum Security suggests he's using therapeutics irresponsibly and not using clear cut illegal PEDs. But a few more high profile horses are likely to change hands soon and we'll see more. I took a good look at some of the high profile horses switched to him in recent years. I didn't see any consistent pattern of huge move ups. Country Grammar jumped up a lot off a move from Chad Brown, but he was an improving 3yo coming off a long layoff at 4.
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i agree that it's all speculation.
I don't understand your change-of-hand evidence whatsoever, unless your questioning is limited to Baffert being a lone wolf who is the only trainer that administers undetectable PEDs and who does so secretly without the knowledge of the owners.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
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02-21-2022, 05:43 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 487
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Of course, by racing tradition, Medina Spirit had to be DQ'ed.
But consider, now, that the 2 most recent non-Baffert Derby winners have never so much as finished in front in a Grade I race in their combined careers.
That while of the last 3 Baffert Derby winners, two were Triple Crown champions.
Somehow people believe this is an improvement to horse racing.
Not to mention that the villian in this case continues to clean the clocks of the, uh, neigh-sayers at or above his traditional clip even though he is said to be employing the finest arsenal of illegal equine enhancements in modern (or non-modern) history. Like so many others who have posed for a time as "the juice man", upon getting caught, this villian's level of performance should have plunged soon after he was caught.
Instead, he has won at a shade under 34% since the Derby overage was announced and that despite so often having to face his own steeds in the same race (which limits his best possible success percentage).
It remains clear to see who is having the last laugh (entirely at the expense of only the aforementioned neigh-sayers ).
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02-21-2022, 06:52 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
He deserves his own thread, I think.
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Why? Because both his Grade I wins are by DQ. Might want to wait until he finishes first.
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02-21-2022, 06:54 PM
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#12
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 324
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Cox maybe just as bad.
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02-21-2022, 06:58 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AskinHaskin
Of course, by racing tradition, Medina Spirit had to be DQ'ed.
But consider, now, that the 2 most recent non-Baffert Derby winners have never so much as finished in front in a Grade I race in their combined careers.
That while of the last 3 Baffert Derby winners, two were Triple Crown champions.
Somehow people believe this is an improvement to horse racing.
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Should it surprise you that PED users are more consistent than non-PED users? I mean, steroids users more consistently hit homers.
A drug free sport may be one with less excellence, just like drug free baseball may have fewer tape measure home runs and drug free figure skaters may land fewer quads and triple axels. So what?
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02-21-2022, 07:09 PM
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#14
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Fergus,ON
Posts: 3,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisk Urging
Cox maybe just as bad.
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Explain?
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Handicapping the world year round'
-Conley
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02-21-2022, 11:56 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fischer
i agree that it's all speculation.
I don't understand your change-of-hand evidence whatsoever, unless your questioning is limited to Baffert being a lone wolf who is the only trainer that administers undetectable PEDs and who does so secretly without the knowledge of the owners.
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It’s never all or nothing, but if you are going to speculate that Baffert is using something illegal then we should see a similar general pattern with his trainer changes to/from that we see with other trainers that have been caught or that we all kind of suspect are juicing based on move ups.
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"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
Last edited by classhandicapper; 02-21-2022 at 11:57 PM.
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