Kinchen suspended from National Horseplayers Championship Tour for at least two years

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by wiretowire68

Well bottom line is he broke the rules. I gave spoken with Jonathon several times via e-mail, twitter. To me he is as a person who is like the rest of people in society who craves sucess and loves racing and has had great sucess. I think he is a great guy. I have been so close in qualifying for this tounament over the last 7 years. As far as the insiders go, it has always been an inside game and will always be. I do believe that people who are working at the track, i.e tv annoucers, trainers, annoucers, people who handicap for the tracks etc. My feeling is I do not think they should be allowed to participate. This is for the public and my guess it was originally designed that way.

Just my personal belief. Covid will end and the tournament will stay as is..I hope if I ever get there. NTRA should consider there rules. Not all trainers are great handicappers, he was not doing well from what I understand. As far as I am concerned if you are associated with the industry as it was said by executives etc and are in close contact with people of the industry who have inside industry then they should not be allowed. I think integrity is key here.

I've been in the industry for 45 years.

I have NEVER and am not REMOTELY interested in any so called insider information.

I've cultivated my own handicapping opinion by trial/error, blood/sweat/tears, and a HUGE amount of hard work.

I don't give a rats patootie what a trainer, jockey, handicapper, manager, janitor or bathroom attendant has to say.

EVER

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

He definitely cheated. You have the rules and a couple articles to read.

"cheat

gerund or present participle: cheating

1. act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination. "

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

The only person who needs correcting is you. You were wrong last year...

Yet another ace served up by HANA's head cheerleader.


What say you read a dictionary?

(... and then get to work on the 2029 HANA track ratings)

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

How so, exactly?

That you seem to always be involved in some sort of bickering.

That's how you roll and it's your site.

I have no problem with it.

[JeremyJet]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

And BTW, when I say classy, I'm talking about you trying to recruit someone of stature to start posting elsewhere, right in front of my face.

Like I said, stay classy.

You're paranoid, dude.

Seriously, you can't understand my curiosity? He's a sheet player ... uses Thoro-Graph ... they have a board. I mean, it all adds up. No?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

That you seem to always be involved in some sort of bickering.

Coming from you, this is sort of ironic.

[JeremyJet]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I don't give a rats patootie what a trainer, jockey, handicapper, manager, janitor or bathroom attendant has to say.

EVER

Tell us how you really feel, Vic.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by JeremyJet

You're paranoid, dude.

OK. Whatever.

Let's get back to the topic at hand:

KINCHEN IS THE DEVIL

discuss amongst yourselves

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

"cheat

gerund or present participle: cheating

1. act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination. "





Yet another ace served up by HANA's head cheerleader.


What say you read a dictionary?

(... and then get to work on the 2029 HANA track ratings)

Was only a member. Not on the board and didn't do track ratings. And they did some good work

As far as your other nonsense (another guy who didn't read the rules or the article) garbage in and garbage out. Good luck

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Coming from you, this is sort of ironic.

I don't see the irony.

I've never suggested I don't mix it up.

And many times with you.

I have made a personal decision to tone down my rhetoric a bit.

Because I do feel I represent the industry and don't feel I can share the truth if I come on too strong.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by wiretowire68

Well bottom line is he broke the rules. I gave spoken with Jonathon several times via e-mail, twitter. To me he is as a person who is like the rest of people in society who craves sucess and loves racing and has had great sucess. I think he is a great guy. I have been so close in qualifying for this tounament over the last 7 years. As far as the insiders go, it has always been an inside game and will always be. I do believe that people who are working at the track, i.e tv annoucers, trainers, annoucers, people who handicap for the tracks etc. My feeling is I do not think they should be allowed to participate. This is for the public and my guess it was originally designed that way.

Just my personal belief. Covid will end and the tournament will stay as is..I hope if I ever get there. NTRA should consider there rules. Not all trainers are great handicappers, he was not doing well from what I understand. As far as I am concerned if you are associated with the industry as it was said by executives etc and are in close contact with people of the industry who have inside industry then they should not be allowed. I think integrity is key here.

I couldn't disagree more with your thoughts about people in the industry not being allowed to bet. I strongly believe that everyone that has my job, on air handicapper, should have to bet at least enough on their picks to feel some pain when they suck ( a number that can differ greatly from one person to the next ). If someone publicly endorses a longshot, they should be willing to risk their own money, as an attempt at free glory is disingenuous at best. As for executives....they should know first hand, IMO, what their customers are doing. Once again, it doesn't have to be a lot, but I think a fair criticism sometimes is that executives may not know the business they are in, at least as well as they should.

The information around racetracks is, overall, is pretty much useless at best. You are mistaken if you think people working at racetracks are privy to loads of valuable information. Personally, I would rather listen to Maggie Wolfendale's paddock thoughts on firsters than the VAST majority of tips I have heard over the years.

[JeremyJet]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

OK. Whatever.

Let's get back to the topic at hand:

KINCHEN IS THE DEVIL

discuss amongst yourselves

Nah. He's not a bad guy. How can he be? He's a one of us ... a horseplayer.

What he seems to be guilty of is something I would have pulled as a 16yo punk. The problem is the guy is in his ... 30s?

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by the little guy

I couldn't disagree more with your thoughts about people in the industry not being allowed to bet. I strongly believe that everyone that has my job, on air handicapper, should have to bet at least enough on their picks to feel some pain when they suck ( a number that can differ greatly from one person to the next ). If someone publicly endorses a longshot, they should be willing to risk their own money, as an attempt at free glory is disingenuous at best. As for executives....they should know first hand, IMO, what their customers are doing. Once again, it doesn't have to be a lot, but I think a fair criticism sometimes is that executives may not know the business they are in, at least as well as they should.

The information around racetracks is, overall, is pretty much useless at best. You are mistaken if you think people working at racetracks are privy to loads of valuable information. Personally, I would rather listen to Maggie Wolfendale's paddock thoughts on firsters than the VAST majority of tips I have heard over the years.

VERY SHARP POST

[Poindexter]

Just a few generalities.

1) Looks like the players are on board with the rules about having to be at the tournament, so that is enough for me. I was wondering if there was some edge that I was missing. If is makes the experience better for anyone no need to change. If you want to play, you play by the rules. JK did not he will pay the price and be back in 3 years. It is all good. Sometimes staying with tradition is best and it sounds like tradition is best with this tournament. There is always room for other online tournaments.

2) Regarding race. I am trying personally to keep race out of discussions as much as I can. I know I brought it up in an off topic posts a few years ago, in hindsight, I wish I didn't (I am sure the thread is long forgotten). Other than my personal belief that I hate racism and I wish people would just treat each other right and respect each other, I for the most part stay away from the subject. Society amplifies the subject so much these days it sometimes creates an opposite effect than what is intended, imo. I am not averse to discussing a subject regarding race if it is clear cut in my mind, or calling out behavior if it is wrong, I just realize that things are not always as they seem.
When you get into a handicapping you are already dealing with huge egos. When you deal with public selectors or figures in an industry, that clouds the picture even more, because maybe there is jealousy issues, maybe people don't like a way a person conducts his or her self on the air or maybe their personality just rubs them the wrong way. Not everybody meshes.

3) Vic is a huge asset to this forum imo. There appears to be a back story between him and PA, but from what I see, Vic generally keeps it professional and respectful. I always appreciate his perspective and his sharing of past experiences in the industry to his discussions of tournament play. He brings substance to the forum.

4) I have mixed it up a tiny bit with TLG. It seems like he is a great guy in person. I was not aware of the antisemitism that PA is talking about. Perhaps before I was posting with regularity, perhaps I am/was just oblivious to it. Perhaps that has shaped the posting style of TLG. Obviously he also can be a huge asset to this forum, but it always seems to me like he has an ego bigger than the front door, and he seems obsessively fond of one line responses instead of really discussing a subject (not always but too often). I am not attacking him, I am just giving my personal interpretation of his posting style. He basically comes off as very arrogant. This is a posting forum, not twitter, and to me a posting forum is much better than twitter to discuss things. Obviously Twitter is a gazillion dollar company but so what. My hope is TLG modifies his posting style and contributes more as obviously his opinion is of great value whether Vic is a better handicapper or not.

[wiretowire68]

I never said they should not be allowed to bet?????? I said I think for the integrity of the NHC tournament and the "principal" that it was supposedly designed for. They have their rules, I have no problem if they allow announcers and trainers etc in. I just said and I believe that those players not privy to contact may or the public may perceive that there could be the possibility that was all.

As I stated I think Jonothan is an outstanding person and if they have a set of rules adopted for it then they have spoken. As far as Mr. Stauffers rhetoric with regards to information and his friendships around the track, if that is Vic Stauffer, I will say this and I was only saying even the public get tipped off sometimes if you are a track going person..so your talk of 45 years is either really funny or you fell off your bible on the way to the track. Secondly, you know people on this site are out of their minds if they do not see the b.s. that goes on live with "America's day at the Races" and TVG for whom I am a great firm believer in the sport. Just from being an outsider watching and being apart of the tournaments and being a horseplayer. I will give you two incidents that I commented on "The wizards" forum and Michael Pizzola's site and being a user of Valucapper as a tool.. two blatant reporters basically giving you the winner right in front of you. Acacia Courtenay interviews Mark Casse 5 minutes to post on the filly Aug. 15 at the Spa. Got Stormy...goes off at 8-1 and wins quite well but there was no information passed on there. Second one.......Britney Eurton interviews John Sadler with about a minute to post on Tripoli in the Pacific Classic.........what was he 11-1 and both interviewed before the post. Are you kidding me.... So it would lead any person to question. Do you know how many times I have put money on horses when they interview someone just before the race????????? If you do not see it, then you are really naieve or I am. And people wonder......

[wiretowire68]

However, you might not consider that a tip right????????????