Scratch board data

[CBYRacer]

Evening everyone,

Is there a way (likely through main data providers) to get historical scratch board data by day for a given track? Alternatively, would the tracks themselves potentially archive this data?

Looking to do some analysis on when scratched runners return and how they perform.

Thanks for your help.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by CBYRacer

Evening everyone,

Is there a way (likely through main data providers) to get historical scratch board data by day for a given track? Alternatively, would the tracks themselves potentially archive this data?

Looking to do some analysis on when scratched runners return and how they perform.

Thanks for your help.

You are in for some work....Unfortunately, you'll have to manually go thru the past full charts, the scratches will be there. You'll then have to go thru the entries, day by day, to see when they ran or scratched again.

You're better off to just start now, making a watch list of the horses that scratch and go from there....It'll be much easier.

[CBYRacer]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

You are in for some work....Unfortunately, you'll have to manually go thru the past full charts, the scratches will be there. You'll then have to go thru the entries, day by day, to see when they ran or scratched again.

You're better off to just start now, making a watch list of the horses that scratch and go from there....It'll be much easier.

I think you're right. That's what I was afraid of. Thanks, Randall.

[sharkey11]

bris net puts up scratch info on the entries at the bottom of the page dont know if thats what your looking for but its free

[Tom]

HDW comma charts have this info in them, with the reason for scratch, class, track condition...

Other comma charts may have this too. The project could be db based and much easier than you think.

[Jayhawk6191]

After you review the charts for the scratches, then all you have to do is enter the horses name in equibase and it will provide all its results. It doesn't sound too daunting

[CBYRacer]

Originally Posted by Tom

HDW comma charts have this info in them, with the reason for scratch, class, track condition...

Other comma charts may have this too. The project could be db based and much easier than you think.

Thanks as always, Tom. I guess what I was hoping to get are instances pre-race in which one of the entered horses had scratched. Again, previous to today's race. I'm guessing what the HDW charts show is whether the horse scratched in today's race and the reason for this.

I could obviously start to collect this scratch information, but I would have to collect it for all tracks since the horse could have scratched at any track prior to today's race. Does that make sense?

[Jeff P]

I've been parsing the Equibase Scratches and Changes XML since 2009.

In 2013 or 2014 I started saving scratches and changes parsed from the XML to a table in an Access database - and from there started generating a daily changes report.

• My primary objective for starting this project was the ability to generate a report showing new scratches and changes - so I could quickly do number crunching for races that have undergone a change.

Link to yesterday's changes report so you can see what that looks like:
http://www.jcapper.com/messageboard/..._07082021.html

I've also attached an Excel Spreadsheet that contains yesterday's scratches that I exported from the Access database so you can see what that looks like.


• One of my secondary objectives for doing this was the ability to test a couple of hypotheses:

1. Is there an roi-boost to be had when scratched horses come back to race again?

2. When scratched horses come back to race again does the reason for the scratch matter? For example, vet scratch vs. scratched for various other reasons? (Another player had assured me there was an roi-boost to be had especially for vet scratches.)

After analyzing data for several thousand vet scratched horses in their subsequent starts - the data suggested there wasn't much there that wasn't already reflected in the odds.

Afterwards I had a conversation with the player who had assured me there was an roi-boost to be had especially for vet scratches.

He told me I was painting with too broad a brush - and that every horse has a story.

He told me a lot of vet scratches aren't really vet scratches at all - that many arise not because the horse had a cough on race day or might still be a little sore from a fast recent workout --

But rather because the connections saw something they didn't like on race day.

Maybe it rained and the track came up sloppy... or they drew an inside post and they suddenly realized the speed of the race was drawn to their immediate outside... stuff like that.

So they decide to scratch and find an easier spot. And to avoid any resistance from the racing office they find a vet willing to sign off on it.

He told me those are the vet scratches where you can occasionally make a nice score.

But to do that, Imo, it's easier if you have connections with a horseman or two at your local track. If you're there every day, after they get to know you - sometimes you get to know a horse's story.


• I'm currently clearing the Access table at the end of each race day because I'm no longer looking at the scratches data as a basis for potential plays when horses come back to race again.

But I am archiving the daily scratches and changes xml files downloaded from Equibase in case I ever decide to give the idea a second look.


• And like Tom mentioned -- the scratches data exists in the HDW Charts Data - columns CS and CT if you import into Excel (which by the way is easy to do.)

And like you mentioned CBYRacer - to make it work, because horses often scratch at Track-A and show up a few days later at Track-B - you'd need to become a monthly downloader.



-jp

.

[CBYRacer]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

I've been parsing the Equibase Scratches and Changes XML since 2009.

In 2013 or 2014 I started saving scratches and changes parsed from the XML to a table in an Access database - and from there started generating a daily changes report.

• My primary objective for starting this project was the ability to generate a report showing new scratches and changes - so I could quickly do number crunching for races that have undergone a change.

Link to yesterday's changes report so you can see what that looks like:
http://www.jcapper.com/messageboard/..._07082021.html

I've also attached an Excel Spreadsheet that contains yesterday's scratches that I exported from the Access database so you can see what that looks like.


• One of my secondary objectives for doing this was the ability to test a couple of hypotheses:

1. Is there an roi-boost to be had when scratched horses come back to race again?

2. When scratched horses come back to race again does the reason for the scratch matter? For example, vet scratch vs. scratched for various other reasons? (Another player had assured me there was an roi-boost to be had especially for vet scratches.)

After analyzing data for several thousand vet scratched horses in their subsequent starts - the data suggested there wasn't much there that wasn't already reflected in the odds.

Afterwards I had a conversation with the player who had assured me there was an roi-boost to be had especially for vet scratches.

He told me I was painting with too broad a brush - and that every horse has a story.

He told me a lot of vet scratches aren't really vet scratches at all - that many arise not because the horse had a cough on race day or might still be a little sore from a fast recent workout --

But rather because the connections saw something they didn't like on race day.

Maybe it rained and the track came up sloppy... or they drew an inside post and they suddenly realized the speed of the race was drawn to their immediate outside... stuff like that.

So they decide to scratch and find an easier spot. And to avoid any resistance from the racing office they find a vet willing to sign off on it.

He told me those are the vet scratches where you can occasionally make a nice score.

But to do that, Imo, it's easier if you have connections with a horseman or two at your local track. If you're there every day, after they get to know you - sometimes you get to know a horse's story.


• I'm currently clearing the Access table at the end of each race day because I'm no longer looking at the scratches data as a basis for potential plays when horses come back to race again.

But I am archiving the daily scratches and changes xml files downloaded from Equibase in case I ever decide to give the idea a second look.


• And like Tom mentioned -- the scratches data exists in the HDW Charts Data - columns CS and CT if you import into Excel (which by the way is easy to do.)

And like you mentioned CBYRacer - to make it work, because horses often scratch at Track-A and show up a few days later at Track-B - you'd need to become a monthly downloader.



-jp

.

Awesome info, JP. Thank you for taking the time to share your work. Doesn't seem promising enough for me to pursue at this time given your analysis. Thanks again.

[green80]

I wouldn't read too much into the vet scratches. If a trainer doesn't want to run a horse and it's after scratch time, the easiest thing to do is get a vet scratch. You tell your vet you want a vet scratch and it's usually no questions asked. Sometimes there could be some minor ailment with the horse but other times the trainer just does not want to run that day for whatever reason. I would say that you need to look at the time since the scratch until the horse is re-entered. If it's just a few days it's doubtful anything was wrong with the horse. If it's weeks or months, that's another issue.

[CBYRacer]

Originally Posted by green80

I wouldn't read too much into the vet scratches. If a trainer doesn't want to run a horse and it's after scratch time, the easiest thing to do is get a vet scratch. You tell your vet you want a vet scratch and it's usually no questions asked. Sometimes there could be some minor ailment with the horse but other times the trainer just does not want to run that day for whatever reason. I would say that you need to look at the time since the scratch until the horse is re-entered. If it's just a few days it's doubtful anything was wrong with the horse. If it's weeks or months, that's another issue.

Interesting hypothesis on time between scratch and return race. Probably worth digging a bit more on that. Thanks!

[Tom]

Originally Posted by CBYRacer

Thanks as always, Tom. I guess what I was hoping to get are instances pre-race in which one of the entered horses had scratched. Again, previous to today's race. I'm guessing what the HDW charts show is whether the horse scratched in today's race and the reason for this.

I could obviously start to collect this scratch information, but I would have to collect it for all tracks since the horse could have scratched at any track prior to today's race. Does that make sense?

That would great to have in the PPs, like works.

[therussmeister]

I know twin spires online tote board shows scratches in the horses lifetime record. I would expect others would too.

You don't have to have a twin spires account to use it.

[ubercapper]

Originally Posted by therussmeister

I know twin spires online tote board shows scratches in the horses lifetime record. I would expect others would too.

You don't have to have a twin spires account to use it.

Stats Race Lens has a "merge scratches" feature (with a link to the chart of the race the horse scratched out of and the reason like Vet, Trainer, Stewards) and I use it as a default to show the scratches as they occur in chronological order. It can be very helpful to gauge trainer intent at scratching for another spot.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

You are in for some work....Unfortunately, you'll have to manually go thru the past full charts, the scratches will be there. You'll then have to go thru the entries, day by day, to see when they ran or scratched again.

You're better off to just start now, making a watch list of the horses that scratch and go from there....It'll be much easier.

Before there was Formulator, I had good success contorting RTO, the system used by racing offices to process entries, etc.., into a handicapping aid. It enabled me to surf charts, access lifetime past performances, track scratches, and much more.

The geeks who developed RTO possess super-human intelligence and at one time considered tweaking their product to service players.

The friendly folks at DRF will never know how lucky they are that the RTO boys decided to stay in their on lane.