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Old 12-29-2020, 11:07 PM   #1
sammy the sage
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Any way to help an Alcoholic

They know they're an Alkie....even worse....they're engaged to an Alkie....am a friend....(seriously)....don't know what to do....thoughts anyone?

Yeah...I know...said person should dump the fiance....(personally....think deep down...they know this)....but I can't broach that topic....

Anyways....am very good at finding herbal cures for things...such as horse chesnut for varicose veins or malic acid for gout....physical stuff ...like a broken bone...well that's straight forward....

But...mental....that's a whole 'nother' topic...thoughts or experience on this would be appreciated...

Side note...had an employee who once was....got busted....spent 9 months in the county pen....straightened his life out...been clean for 20 years now....my sarcastic self thought about telling them to go get arrested....just can't do that...although that might actually work in this case....
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Old 12-29-2020, 11:21 PM   #2
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It is a personal decision they must come to terms with. I quit for over a year in 2018 for medical reasons I had to convince only one person,myself. A few doctors told me i was an alcoholic though I didn't really believe them, I did quit.
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Old 12-29-2020, 11:59 PM   #3
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Well, as a friend, an-others alcoholism is not something that you would necessarily be in a position to effect much change. I say this by virtue of the fact of having had various family members who fit squarely within that category. The disease wields such a singular envelopment and is largely oblivious to any of the rationality most of us would be familiar with. As for the criminal justice system route, I would advise against that solely based on the notion that having a criminal stigma would simply add another burden. Perhaps, in this day and age, the ready availability of those trained in the vocation of counseling is something which might be sought out by your friend.
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Old 12-30-2020, 12:34 AM   #4
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IMO...life is hard enough even if we don't have to share it with an alcoholic. If we can, we should avoid obvious problems before they become festering catastrophes. Your friend is lucky to have discovered the fiance's addiction before the wedding, and the subsequent kids. My sister wasn't that lucky...and she suffered mightily. Most people don't change...even if it seems that they have.
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Old 12-30-2020, 12:37 AM   #5
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Decisions come from within.
That decision can only be made by one person - the person who is struggling, sometimes after lots of self-destruction (and of families too) and sometimes not at all.
Disease? Or Decision?
Medical doctors say disease.
If so, it is a very strange disease where a bottle jumps out and says "Drink Me."
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Old 12-30-2020, 12:50 AM   #6
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Decisions come from within.
That decision can only be made by one person - the person who is struggling, sometimes after lots of self-destruction (and of families too) and sometimes not at all.
Disease? Or Decision?
Medical doctors say disease.
If so, it is a very strange disease where a bottle jumps out and says "Drink Me."
I used to call alcoholism a disease too. And then my wife got stricken with breast cancer, and in the course of her chemotherapy treatments I came to know other courageous women, of all ages, who suffered unspeakable torture in the hands of this heinous "Emperor of all Maladies". That's when I found out what a real "disease" was really like. There are "diseases", and then there are "character weaknesses". When the medical doctors confuse the two, they demean the struggles of the real "victims" out there...IMO.

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Old 12-30-2020, 01:29 AM   #7
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I used to call alcoholism a disease too. And then my wife got stricken with breast cancer, and in the course of her chemotherapy treatments I came to know other courageous women, of all ages, who suffered unspeakable torture in the hands of this heinous "Emperor of all Maladies". That's when I found out what a real "disease" was really like. There are "diseases", and then there are "character weaknesses". When the medical doctors confuse the two, they demean the struggles of the real "victims" out there...IMO.
BINGO!!!

You have a "Wisdom" that I have always recognized here "Thaskalos.

Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος

(Hopefully that says what Google translator says it says.)
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Old 12-30-2020, 01:33 AM   #8
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Ευτυχισμένο το νέο έτος

(Hopefully that says what Google translator says it says.)
It does. And I wish you the same in return.
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Old 12-30-2020, 01:43 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
I used to call alcoholism a disease too. And then my wife got stricken with breast cancer, and in the course of her chemotherapy treatments I came to know other courageous women, of all ages, who suffered unspeakable torture in the hands of this heinous "Emperor of all Maladies". That's when I found out what a real "disease" was really like. There are "diseases", and then there are "character weaknesses". When the medical doctors confuse the two, they demean the struggles of the real "victims" out there...IMO.
I've made the same analogy here years ago and got roasted for being "mean" and ill informed. It's true though. Drinking is a choice. Cancer is a disease. People who can't see this much are delusional.
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Old 12-30-2020, 01:47 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by sammy the sage View Post
They know they're an Alkie....even worse....they're engaged to an Alkie....am a friend....(seriously)....don't know what to do....thoughts anyone?

Yeah...I know...said person should dump the fiance....(personally....think deep down...they know this)....but I can't broach that topic....

Anyways....am very good at finding herbal cures for things...such as horse chesnut for varicose veins or malic acid for gout....physical stuff ...like a broken bone...well that's straight forward....

But...mental....that's a whole 'nother' topic...thoughts or experience on this would be appreciated...

Side note...had an employee who once was....got busted....spent 9 months in the county pen....straightened his life out...been clean for 20 years now....my sarcastic self thought about telling them to go get arrested....just can't do that...although that might actually work in this case....
Plenty of fish in the sea. Go find a good one that won't make your life a daily trip to hell
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Old 12-30-2020, 01:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
I used to call alcoholism a disease too. And then my wife got stricken with breast cancer, and in the course of her chemotherapy treatments I came to know other courageous women, of all ages, who suffered unspeakable torture in the hands of this heinous "Emperor of all Maladies". That's when I found out what a real "disease" was really like. There are "diseases", and then there are "character weaknesses". When the medical doctors confuse the two, they demean the struggles of the real "victims" out there...IMO.
When one chooses to consider an affliction which manifests itself in a biologically verifiable manner with an affliction which can be attributed to nothing more than "character weakness" then conflating the two is wrong. However attributing the scourge of alcoholism to simply being the result of certain souls lacking sufficient will power to self cure is nothing more than a handy explanation for their plight and utterly denies the existence of that component in ourselves which largely defines us. Specifically our instinctual nature.
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Old 12-30-2020, 02:08 AM   #12
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When one chooses to consider an affliction which manifests itself in a biologically verifiable manner with an affliction which can be attributed to nothing more than "character weakness" then conflating the two is wrong. However attributing the scourge of alcoholism to simply being the result of certain souls lacking sufficient will power to self cure is nothing more than a handy explanation for their plight and utterly denies the existence of that component in ourselves which largely defines us. Specifically our instinctual nature.
If alcoholism were indeed caused by our "instinctual nature", then I dare say that it would be way more widespread than it currently is. I don't downplay the alcoholic's "self-cure" ordeal...nor do I trivialize his "plight". I just question the composition of his "character"...which allowed him to get addicted to drinking in the first place. To call the alcoholic "sick" is to somehow absolve him of the consequences of his irresponsible choices...in my opinion, at least.
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Old 12-30-2020, 04:37 AM   #13
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There is nothing you can do for an alcoholic...the choice to drink or not is theirs and theirs alone. They claim it's a disease to absolve themselves of any responsibility for their choices. I can't help it I'm sick. I know I've seen them choose booze over life.

This may sound harsh to some but this is the way it is from what I have seen.
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:31 AM   #14
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I wouldn’t care anything about alcoholics except that when they’re drunk you can’t seem to keep them from driving cars, horribly.
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Old 12-30-2020, 07:06 AM   #15
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I of course hold a different view.

Alcoholism is a genetic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4056340/

“Abundant evidence indicates that alcoholism is a complex genetic disease, with variations in a large number of genes affecting risk. Some of these genes have been identified, including two genes of alcohol metabolism, ADH1B and ALDH2, that have the strongest known affects on risk for alcoholism. Studies are revealing other genes in which variants impact risk for alcoholism or related traits, including GABRA2, CHRM2, KCNJ6, and AUTS2.”

Allan
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