simulcast and body language

[nalley0710]

Does anyone have a list of tracks that shows their horses well enough on their simulcast to adequately discern all the horses entered body language ?

[DJofSD]

0.

IMO, to seriously include body language as a tool, you need to be on track.

A 10 second look at a horse will not tell you enough. Can you really tell the condition of the coat? Can you see sweat dripping from the belly? Is the tail tightly clenched to the quarters a momentary reaction? What if the horse starts to display that rocking horse I'm happy to be here reaction and the camera is not showing the horse?

[Bruddah]

Originally Posted by DJofSD

0.

IMO, to seriously include body language as a tool, you need to be on track.

A 10 second look at a horse will not tell you enough. Can you really tell the condition of the coat? Can you see sweat dripping from the belly? Is the tail tightly clenched to the quarters a momentary reaction? What if the horse starts to display that rocking horse I'm happy to be here reaction and the camera is not showing the horse?

What DJofSD said!
Body language is a great tool in assisting selections in handicapping. However, not at a simulcast or OTB. Fah git bout it! Live track only!

[sammy the sage]

We knew Super Saver wouldn't run a lick in the preakness from simulcast viewing...

[Robert Goren]

The only thing I am able to get from a simulcast is the way a horse moves their feet. It is strictly for a negative sign.

[magwell]

The only way to do that is to be on the scene, you can eliminate many of the "not to win" in the paddock and post parade, you can only do a little of that on TV

[PhantomOnTour]

Saw a guy in the paddock at FG for years with no DRF, just a program. He watched every horse circle in front of him in the paddock and made notes on them. He wrote for a few seconds on every horse as it walked by him. I wasn't there everyday, but he was there every time I went. Decided to follow him to the window one day...he's a $2 bettor...and his horse won. One day I approached him to ask about his methods. Turns out he's a retiree that loves the challenge more than the money...the well-to-do always say that!
Anyway, the point is that it can be done, but like others have said it's an on track kinda thing.

[jballscalls]

I remember going to emerald one night with a gal that was a vet, and we're in the paddock for the first, 7 horse field, and she says "who would bet the 5 horse, he is so sore in the back"

i said "he looks like the rest of them to me" LOL i look at the board and the 5 is the 6/5 fave.

so we make a trifecta play, throw the 5 out, he runs off the board and i hit for 3 bills when a price horse wins!

i'm horrible at noticing body language of horses

[DJofSD]

Jason, it can be learned. Too bad you lady-friend/vet is not there to help you.

A good place to start is the Ledbetter/McCarron book about body language.

[saevena]

This past Sunday, August 1, I was at the paddock at Laurel for the last race. I watched as the handler brought horse 7 to the horse identifier. The handler was having trouble controlling the horse, who was washed out, and the identifier had trouble trying to view his lip tattoo. I watched this horse as he was walked in the paddock. Track personnel were unable to saddle him in his stall and they tried walking him and saddling him at the same time. Huge drops of water dripped from his belly, enough to probably fill a glass of water. The horse reared up a number of times to add to the confusion. When the horses left the paddock, several other trainers tried to jokingly console the trainer of the horse, the winless Emmanuel McNeil. The last thing I saw was McNeil sadly shaking his head and saying: "He has one run." Apparently, one run was enough. 15-1 on the morning line, this horse wired the field at 60-1. Being a regular at the paddock, I have seen this too often and observed the errors of horse people as they judged horses by their looks in the paddock.

[BIG49010]

Gulfstream is about the best, Keeneland is decent, Churchill and the NYRA tracks are the worst. I've said things to Andy, and I believe he has said somethings to TV department, but they don't care. You see the out pony more than the horses, with the angle they show on post parade.

You need the track feeds, which I have not seen on the new Dish set up, but on RTN the picture on the TV is so bad it was impossible to do. Canada has HPI -TV and picture is great, I had it for a while, until they made it spot beamed and you can't get it in Florida in the winter.

You have to spend years at the track, then I believe you can do it off the TV, if you have a good picture.

My 2 cents

[harness2008]

Originally Posted by sammy the sage

We knew Super Saver wouldn't run a lick in the preakness from simulcast viewing...

Yes, in fact it was mentioned that he indeed had lost weight since the Derby, usually a negative sign. Unfortunately this was mentioned as the horses were entering the starting gate.

There will be times you may get a glimse either positive or negative off the simulcast but not nearly enough as if you there personally.

[Tom]

I just watched the Whitney on MSG+ and NYRA shows the lead ponies for a post parade, but then, as they fade to commercial, they turn on the camera on the other side of the track and you have a clear view of the actual race horses....for about a second and a half.

Duh.
I have to wonder if anyone at these tracks is paid to think.

[Dick Schmidt]

Though it is, of course, highly dependent on the camera view, it can be done on TV. I knew someone who could do it. My grandfather could pick horses on TV with about a 40% win rate just by looking. He was born in the Colorado territory in 1890 and rode a horse to school, worked with horses and helped his father run a livery stable. Didn't even see a car until he was 11. He had a deep knowledge of horses that few have today. When grandpa said the #6 looked good, you could bet that the 6 would be in the race to the end, if not win outright. As a side note, grandpa never bet on the horses and disliked horse racing.

Since I don't have that sort of knowledge, I could never master the black art. One thing to note is that one look at a horse may not be enough. I was friends with a guy who had a Grade II winning filly that always washed out and hung her head before a race. Looked terrible, but she always looked like that and then she would run her heart out. Each horse is different and you need to get to know the stock at the track.

The only thing that ever helped me at all with body language was a video tape (yes, tape, not CD) called "Beat the Beam." It was intended to show you how to judge horses on TV and it had some good stuff. Over the years when I bothered to look at the horses before a race, I must have thrown out 35-40 horses for "walking short." I don't remember any of them ever beating me. Good tape if you can find it (and still own a VCR).

Dick

Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive.

[nalley0710]

Thanks for all the comments. Its great to have this site to share information with other dedicated handicappers.