Irad Ortiz knocks a rider off a horse

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

There was another 'no call' that went Irad's way in the G2 Demoiselle (R9.)

Imo, despite what happened yesterday - the stewards are sending a clear message:

Herding and a little bumping are ok.


-jp

.

I think the clear message is "We are bush league. Shut up and bet."

[BarchCapper]

This probably didn't help:

Twitter

I know Dr. Durenberger - the Jockey Club steward - was tweeting about being at AAEP. But it looks like somebody else wasn't there.

__________________
Tom in NW Arkansas
——————
”Past performances are no guarantee of future results.” - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?

[Tom]

My apologies to "bush league" tracks everywhere.

[1mileto7Fcutback]

Dramatics aside (and as usual there have been plenty here) the Remsen was a coin flip kind of call. Irad didn't elbow anyone. He race rode and made it very tight. If I was a steward he would've came down but it wasn't clear cut.

He did nothing wrong in the Demoiselle.

What he did yesterday was inexcusable. The rest is just nonsense.

[JeremyJet]

Hard to believe.

What's going on here, Vic? Does this happen often?

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by 1mileto7Fcutback

Dramatics aside (and as usual there have been plenty here) the Remsen was a coin flip kind of call. Irad didn't elbow anyone. He race rode and made it very tight. If I was a steward he would've came down but it wasn't clear cut.

He did nothing wrong in the Demoiselle.

What he did yesterday was inexcusable. The rest is just nonsense.

Agree on the Demoiselle. I don't think Johnny even claims if he wasn't annoyed about the Remsen.

I tend to agree with you about the Remsen call, though watching it more I changed my original opinion and think he should have come down, somewhat because I think Irad went overboard. Johnny is very good at herding and making things tight. He consistently goes very close to the edge without crossing over. When you do that, you deserve to pay the price when you cross the line, and that's what I think, ultimately, Irad did there.

[Cuffdaddy]

Paging Corey Nakatani to the jocks room, Corey Nakatani please report.

[porchy44]

it pays to be over aggressive, in sports, in general. This is because stewards officials, referees dont make the call of foul against it many times. Thus you can get away with a small percentage of it. This includes all levels and all sports.

It is more egregious though when you can get away with it, when they have the technology of replay.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Cuffdaddy

Paging Corey Nakatani to the jocks room, Corey Nakatani please report.

now that made me laugh

[RaceWitch]

Originally Posted by Boomer

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/r...-for-stewards/

I am sure this was written prior to today's incident.

And I am going to say something everyone else basically has already disagreed with. His ride yesterday was done on purpose. Pitchers throw to bean batters. Hockey Goons are out to make people bleed. Football has their players looking for blood.

Irad seems like a troubled individual. He not only herded Johnny V with his horse today but was herding and elbowing him in the lane.

This guy will hurt someone. Two incidents in two days. He clearly has anger isuues.

Totally agree !

[Robert Fischer]

Stewards as a whole, have a low level of competence.

These aren't wise judges who could break down a race with Andy Serling.

Too many of them are journeyman level handicappers.

It's something we allow to exist. While I do not have any deep understanding of the system, it seems like something that could be improved. Overall it doesn't matter, and it's just something to officially settle a race. Knowing the rules and getting the photos, etc... right are generally considered fine. I know it's not a high-prestige or salary position. I understand that there aren't a ton of good trip handicappers that can/wan0t to perform the duty, but there is room to improve there. It could be as simple as having competent oversight to assist the stewards.


I do not have any big issue with any of the calls yesterday. As far as Irad Otiz - he generally was great yesterday.

Specifically in regards to aggressive, reckless, riding, and tactics that involve a review for fines and suspensions?? It's clear that first-call riders are scarce, and it's clear that first-call riders are by definition connected in networks of powerful leverage. The solution to those concerns is beyond my circle of competence.


As a fan? 'boo' get mad, say your piece, call for fines, suspensions, colony self-enforcement etc... get it outta your system

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Specifically in regards to aggressive, reckless, riding, and tactics that involve a review for fines and suspensions?? It's clear that first-call riders are scarce, and it's clear that first-call riders are by definition connected in networks of powerful leverage. The solution to those concerns is beyond my circle of competence.

I don't doubt this is true, but this is one of these situations where racing behaves as if it isn't a closely publicly regulated activity with significant obligations to the society that allows it to take place.

The notion that we are going to endanger jockeys because some rich guy who be offended if we take his favorite rider off his horse is just unacceptable, and a disaster waiting to happen. What if Ortiz does this again and the rider gets paralyzed, or killed? What do we do then? Blame Joe Drape for writing it up in the New York Times?

It's worth noting that racing wasn't always like this. Eddie Arcaro, THE BEST RIDER IN THE COUNTRY AT THE TIME, was suspended indefinitely for badly and repeatedly fouling another horse in the Cowdin Stakes because he was ticked off at another rider. There was no "designated race rule": he was out on his butt and it took a year before they finally agreed to reinstate him when he came groveling back. The New York stewards who did that understood that they owed a solemn obligation to protect the public, including the other jockeys, and absolutely zero to rich people who might want to hire Arcaro to ride their horses. They got it right. And that's what you do if you don't want your sport to eventually be considered barbaric and get banned by legislatures or the electorate.

[1mileto7Fcutback]

Arcaro retired 60 years ago.

The game and the world as a whole have changed.

[1mileto7Fcutback]

Race riding has always been a part of the game.

How many riders successfully came up the rail on Cordero?

The difference is, in prior years the jocks policed themselves. Very little of that goes on now and the guy that does do it (Irad) needs some policing himself.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by 1mileto7Fcutback

Arcaro retired 60 years ago.

The game and the world as a whole have changed.

If anything, that should cut the other way.

This would be like if football cared LESS about concussions than it did in the 1940's, or auto racing REMOVED safety measures that had been in place 80 years ago.