Religion II

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

The list is much, much longer than that...but it's a start.

Hey...Jesus couldn't have been against LEWD WOMEN. The rumor is that he hung around with them plenty in his day.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by bnabble_car

Why do you put words in my mouth, you deceiver? I never said the Past isn't needed to predict or plan for the Future.

Speaking of deceiving....
You continue with more incomprehensible boxcarian ranting.

Originally Posted by you

I must stress something that I said previously about days coming into existence. When I say that Tomorrow becomes today, I'm saying that a new day has arrived to the Present. I'm saying a new day has been caused to arrive in the Present and the cause, of course, is the motion of the heavenly bodies. So...if you deny that one day becomes another, then you're saying that we are eternal and we're living in eternity. For in eternity nothing comes into existence. Nothing becomes something else; for to become something else requires change (or motion). And Motion requires successive movement. And none of this is possible in Eternity.

So because the earth rotates around the sun and on its' own axis clockwise or counter-clockwise, (you didn't specify) the future PRECEDES the present which PRECEDES the past.
.:sleeping :

No one can understand this bunky. Nor is anyone interested in your ever changing absurd celestial pie-in-t5he-sky biblical rambling pseudo-scientific explanations.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by mORE BABBLE_CAR

I dug this Einstein quote from among my archives. You're gonna love this:

If you don't take my words too seriously, I would say this: If we assume that all matter were to disappear from the world, then, before relativity, one believed that space and time would continue existing in an empty world. But according to the Theory of Relativity, if matter (and its motion) disappeared, there would no longer be any space or time.

How long have I maintained this very same position? Even as recently as 2 or 3 months ago, I asked you what would happen if all Matter vanished from the universe? I asked you this because you and many empty-headed scientists who spout their pop science speak so glibly of an empty space, as though space would continue to exist without Matter revealing that it's there in the first place! As though these wanna-be brainiacs who spout this nonsense, who are nothing themselves but flesh, blood and bones (i.e. matter!) would somehow one day be around to witness empty space and document it for us.

Actor and I both proved to you space could exist without matter. You never asked "what would happen if all Matter vanished from the universe?" as Einstein speculated. Find the quote.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Speaking of deceiving....
You continue with more incomprehensible boxcarian ranting.
So because the earth rotates around the sun and on its' own axis clockwise or counter-clockwise, (you didn't specify) the future PRECEDES the present which PRECEDES the past.
.:sleeping :

No one can understand this bunky. Nor is anyone interested in your ever changing absurd celestial pie-in-t5he-sky biblical rambling pseudo-scientific explanations.

Again, you lie. I have very often and very clearly in one succinct sentence stated the flow of Time. Remember when you balked at the verb "become"? Remember when I wrote OFTEN:

Our Tomorrows become our Todays and our Todays become our Yesterdays?

You had a tough time understanding this "arrow of time"? Notice where the Present is logically situated relative to the Future and the Past?

Now, quit ducking the three questions I have asked you in my 6428 and elsewhere. Answer the three questions already. Quit stalling!

And while you're at it, address the questions in 6429, too.

[hcap]

I do not speak convoluted boxcarian, bunky.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Actor and I both proved to you space could exist without matter. You never asked "what would happen if all Matter vanished from the universe?" as Einstein speculated. Find the quote.

Einstein disagrees with you. And I have often stated to you and Actor and also in my 11-part Trinity series that the universe MUST consist of Space, Matter and Time. Neither one of these components can exist apart from the other. Therefore, the universe cannot exist apart from all three.

I think it's cool that Einstein and I are on the same page.

Oh yeah..."empty space" is an idea that was conceived inside someone's equally empty head. It's just another pop science item that sells magazines.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I do not speak convoluted boxcarian, bunky.

In other words, you have no answers to my questions in 6428 or 29.

You're a true blue empty suit, Humpty.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Hey...Jesus couldn't have been against LEWD WOMEN. The rumor is that he hung around with them plenty in his day.

Jesus wasn't against anyone. But very many were against Him. After, all he did not come into the world to judge the world, but to save it (Jn 12:47). But God has fixed a future day when the Son will judge the world (Act 17:31).

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Einstein disagrees with you. And I have often stated to you and Actor and also in my 11-part Trinity series that the universe MUST consist of Space, Matter and Time. Neither one of these components can exist apart from the other. Therefore, the universe cannot exist apart from all three.

I think it's cool that Einstein and I are on the same page.

Oh yeah..."empty space" is an idea that was conceived inside someone's equally empty head. It's just another pop science item that sells magazines.

Now I can ask my question again. We know the universe is expanding. What does it expand into?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Jesus wasn't against anyone. But very many were against Him. After, all he did not come into the world to judge the world, but to save it (Jn 12:47). But God has fixed a future day when the Son will judge the world (Act 17:31).

The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad.

Friedrich Nietzsche

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

Now I can ask my question again. We know the universe is expanding. What does it expand into?

Has this "expansion" altered the fact that the sun rises in the East and sets in the West? Has it changed the flow of Time? If not, then your question is a non sequitur.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad.

Friedrich Nietzsche

The Total Depravity of man is a biblical "resolution" taught in both Testaments.

Do you doubt that the world is "ugly and bad"?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Babbling_Car

Why do you put words in my mouth, you deceiver? I never said the Past isn't needed to predict or plan for the Future. But why do you continue to dodge the question I have repeatedly asked you:

The problem with lying is if you lie most of the time pathologically, you have difficulties keeping your stories straight. From the Religious thread.

http://216.92.33.211/forum/printthre...pp=40&page=276

To Greyfox.....

Originally Posted by boxcar

What we do today will often "influence" the future to one degree or another. But what Hcap has said is that there is a direct Cause and Effect relationship between the Past and the Future, and that bit of nonsense is wrong on so many levels, I would barely know where to begin to refute it.

Boxcar

But at the end of the day, we don't Cause the Future. The Future, my friend, is NOT in our control. Many of us deceive ourselves into thinking it is, just like the Rich Man did. He obviously thought that the world was in the palm of his hands.

Do you know the difference between something that contributes something to something and cause and effect?

You are utterly self-deceived if you think puny men "cause" the future. Go back and read Luke 12.

Boxcar

You're hopeless. You have said that the there is a cause and effect relationship between the Past and the Future -- meaning that past events cause future events -- meaning that man, who makes those events in the first place, causes what takes place in the future. What comes out of the Past causes the Future. Here is a clue for you: If man's actions here on earth are responsible for the events and those events cause the future, then man also controls what goes on in heaven!

Matt 6:10
10 'Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.

http://216.92.33.211/forum/printthre...p=15&page=1860

Causes do not always precede effects because things are causes and not events. Therefore, they are not temporally ordered. See my 27845 wherein I quoted Dr. Edward Feser extensively.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s....php?p=2303347

Humpty, Chance has no causal power -- neither does Time! I know these two "little" facts are sacrilegious and blasphemous to the high priests of scientism, since they often appeal to their twin gods of Time and Chance to tell us that together this dynamic superhero duo can make anything happen -- eventually.

And for crying out loud, learn to comprehend what I write. I have already agreed with you that tree-chopping is a cause. The tree falling to the ground is the effect. But tree-choppin' ain't the same thing as training horses, since trainers don't make their horses win.

God made the universe, therefore, he is the ultimate cause of all there is in the universe.

Also, the tree falling to the ground had noting to do with Time. Time, therefore was not a cause. The activity or EVENT of chopping the tree down caused it to fall. Learn the difference between events occurring in time and Time itself.

Again, look up the definition of "cause".

Meanwhile, we do know right here and now in the real world that effects often precede causes in the very specific sense given in the example I provided earlier.

Moral of the story is be carefull who you call "you deceiver"

[hcap]

Originally Posted by hcap

Actor and I both proved to you space could exist without matter. You never asked "what would happen if all Matter vanished from the universe?" as Einstein speculated. Find the quote.

Where is the actual quote?

Einstein is saying all matter in the universe. That is not what you said.

In Einsteins theory, space time is curved by matter. We have tried to explain that to you, but you disagreed. We have also attempted to explain modern physics but you call anything beyond your 17th century education "scientism"

Actor is a professional physicist. I studied engineering and hold 2 US patents. What are your credentials?

[boxcar]

[quote=hcap;2307016]Where is the actual quote?

Einstein is saying all matter in the universe. That is not what you said. This is what Einstein said, deceiver:

i]If you don't take my words too seriously, I would say this: If we assume that all matter were to disappear from the world, then, before relativity, one believed that space and time would continue existing in an empty world. But according to the Theory of Relativity, if matter (and its motion) disappeared, there would no longer be any space or time.[/i]

In Einsteins theory, space time is curved by matter. We have tried to explain that to you, but you disagreed. We have also attempted to explain modern physics but you call anything beyond your 17th century education "scientism"

Actor is a professional physicist. I studied engineering and hold 2 US patents. What are your credentials?

You and Dumpty are professional con artists. That's what you two are.
My credentials? I'm a born again child of God who the Holy Spirit has enlightened with the truth, and made me immune to BS from guys like you.

You want actual quotes. Read my 11-part series on the Trinity in the Universe.

Where else would all matter be except in the universe?

For the last time, I'll explain what a 10-year would be able to comprehend:

There can be no Time apart from Space and Matter (in Motion). There can be no Matter (in Motion) apart from Space in which Matter could move. And there can be no Space apart from Matter revealing Space (or the heavens) to us. Therefore, there can be no universe without Space, Matter and Time. And this is exactly what Einstein believed with the Theory of Relativity. Remove all Matter from Space and you're left with NOTHING!

What could "empty space" be other that the absence of existence -- other than the absence of occupancy? If I said, "There isn't a stick of furniture in the living room", I'm saying the room is empty. I'm saying nothing exists in that room -- nothing occupies the room. Nothing cannot possibly exist because Nothing (empty space) is the deprivation of existence.

nd with all your hoidy toidy "credentials" (2 patents, right?), you still have no answers to my questions in 6428 and 29. It appears your 2 patents are good only for getting you to be stuck on stupid! You're nothing but a fraud!