Breakdowns, what's to blame?

[Imriledup]

I've been doing some thinking about the arguments between Synthetic proponents and synthetic detractors and came up with something that isn't really discussed much concerning breakdowns.

I just watched a replay of a horse who broke down 3 weeks later and noticed on this replay that the horse was traveling funny, this horse had a funny 'head nod' in the race and didn't gallop out all that great in my opinion. I feel that this horse was already 'flawed' and didn't break down because of the surface, this horse broke down because it was injured already and the trainer didn't know it (or knew it and didn't care). Some trainers will put lame horses on the track and when they break down, its the surface that gets blamed.

I feel that the only way you can blame the surface is if the horse was 100 percent sound with no flaws or weaknesses in the bones........otherwise, its the flawed horse who was the reason for the breakdown and not the surface.

There must have been a small block in time where many lame and injured horses were being put on the racetrack to train and race and it was just a perfect storm for California. What happened is that California panicked and mandated these tracks to improve safety, but it wasn't the dirt that was breaking down horses, it was just horses who were ready to break down that caused it and not the surface.

As we have seen, there really isn't much of a difference, there are plenty of injuries on Poly as there were on dirt. Maybe you won't get as many catastrophic injuries on synthetic, but you'll have injuries nonetheless.

If you put timebombs on any surface, there are going to be injuries. With the economics of the game, its really too expensive for most owners to rehab cheap claimers and non stakes horses, so the trainer will suggest to keep training the horse thru the pain because financially, there is no other choice.

Where does this leave us? We are really back to square one. The economics of the game just make it too expensive for owners to lay horses up for months or even a year to heal the injury, so many trainers just go forward and rush horses back into battle. Many horses who break down are usually horses who shouldn't have been on the track in the first place (imo). You don't get perfectly healthy, sound and happy horses who break down, 9 times out of ten its a horse who has some pre existing condition, etc. (of course, this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree)

[andymays]

I agree, most of the time the surface has nothing to do with it. I think in time both surfaces are going to be about equal in breakdowns and injuries with synthetic having something like 5% less breakdowns and something like 5% more soft tissue injuries. Just a guess.

The informercial that sold us synthetic surfaces made some ourtrageous claims though if everyone remembers. More like half as many breakdowns and injuries. Less expensive to maintain. More consistent with less biases.

I remember an article I read when synthetic surfaces were first put in and the author said that people who don't like synthetic surfaces don't care if Horses die and they don't care about little children who go to the Track with their parents and see a Horse break down! He said these little children are traumatized for life. I don't remember the author but that was the kind of crap that stuck with me until this day. That kind of stuff went on for a couple of years and now we know that these kinder gentler surfaces aren't as kind and gentle as the infomercial would have us believe.

Dirt surfaces are what they are but the propaganda that went with the selling of synthetic surfaces was way over the top.

[Imriledup]

Originally Posted by andymays

I agree, most of the time the surface has nothing to do with it. I think in time both surfaces are going to be about equal in breakdowns and injuries with synthetic having something like 5% less breakdowns and something like 5% more soft tissue injuries. Just a guess.

The informercial that sold us synthetic surfaces made some ourtrageous claims though if everyone remembers. More like half as many breakdowns and injuries. Less expensive to maintain. More consistent with less biases.

I remember an article I read when synthetic surfaces were first put in and the author said that people who don't like synthetic surfaces don't care if Horses die and they don't care about little children who go to the Track with their parents and see a Horse break down! He said these little children are traumatized for life. I don't remember the author but that was the kind of crap that stuck with me until this day. That kind of stuff went on for a couple of years and now we know that these kinder gentler surfaces aren't as kind and gentle as the infomercial would have us believe.

Dirt surfaces are what they are but the propaganda that went with the selling of synthetic surfaces was way over the top.

Some people who bet on the races care about their betting dollars first and everything else second. Sure, we'd all like to see all the participants safe, but as a bettor you are really completely seperate from the action on the track. What i mean by that is its your responsibility to win money betting and its the track owners/trainers/horse owners/jockeys/grooms, etc to make sure everyone is as safe as possible.

While serious and professional horseplayers would love to see everyone safe, its really up to the other guy to make that happen. I hate when people come out and sort of get mad at players for not putting the horse first. Personally, i want to win money first and foremost, i've done better on conventional dirt tracks so i want to see them return. Do i care about safety? Sure i do, but i care about my bottom line more.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Imriledup

Some people who bet on the races care about their betting dollars first and everything else second. Sure, we'd all like to see all the participants safe, but as a bettor you are really completely seperate from the action on the track. What i mean by that is its your responsibility to win money betting and its the track owners/trainers/horse owners/jockeys/grooms, etc to make sure everyone is as safe as possible.

While serious and professional horseplayers would love to see everyone safe, its really up to the other guy to make that happen. I hate when people come out and sort of get mad at players for not putting the horse first. Personally, i want to win money first and foremost, i've done better on conventional dirt tracks so i want to see them return. Do i care about safety? Sure i do, but i care about my bottom line more.

Safety was their biggest selling point and laying a guilt trip on Handicappers who disagreed was an everyday occurrence. When there are breakdowns and injuries it's bad for everyone but you're right, it's not the players responsibility. I don't know of anyone who wants to see injuries and breakdowns.

[Imriledup]

Originally Posted by andymays

Safety was their biggest selling point and laying a guilt trip on Handicappers who disagreed was an everyday occurrence. When there are breakdowns and injuries it's bad for everyone but you're right, it's not the players responsibility. I don't know of anyone who wants to see injuries and breakdowns.

But, by changing the surfaces they MADE it the players responsibility. The onus fell on the players once again even though this has nothing to do with them. The horse racing industry assumes that players are ingrained somehow in the sport and are attached to the participants within the game. While many players have some affiliation to the inner workings of the game, this shouldn't be assumed.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Imriledup

But, by changing the surfaces they MADE it the players responsibility. The onus fell on the players once again even though this has nothing to do with them. The horse racing industry assumes that players are ingrained somehow in the sport and are attached to the participants within the game. While many players have some affiliation to the inner workings of the game, this shouldn't be assumed.

I agree. That's a good take on it and I don't recall anyone putting it in that perspective. Good point!

[11cashcall]

Let's keep giving them lasix, bute, etc. that should tuff'n them up.

[Bruddah]

Simple answer to a simple question; Racing Horses is to blame. All racing injuries can be stopped tomorrow by not racing horses.(PETA wins) It seems to me all factions which make up Thoroughbred Racing have equal blame. Owners, trainers, tracks, Equine medicine and bettors are equally to blame. Why? because they make up the SPORT.

As long as racing horses is a Sport, there will be injuries. Why? because Sport is driven by money and none of the factions making up the Sport, want to gve up thier share of the money.

Yes, the Sport can be made safer, but not with artificial turf. Let's try eliminating medications first. Imagine the uproar. Let's try making Trainers and Vets sign an affidavit as to the horses soundness first. Trainers and Vets will be in an uproar. Additionally, entrants for cheaper claiming races will go away.

The answer to catastrophic Equine injuries is not to have Horse Racing. Now who wants to give up their share of the money to save just one horse? Step up first and set the bar. ......Don't all factions rush to the front of the line.

THEN STOP THE F&%*ING WHINING and BLUBBERING. As long as we are racing horses, their will be injuries of all types.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Bruddah

Simple answer to a simple question; Racing Horses is to blame. All racing injuries can be stopped tomorrow by not racing horses.(PETA wins) It seems to me all factions which make up Thoroughbred Racing have equal blame. Owners, trainers, tracks, Equine medicine and bettors are equally to blame. Why? because they make up the SPORT.

As long as racing horses is a Sport, there will be injuries. Why? because Sport is driven by money and none of the factions making up the Sport, want to gve up thier share of the money.

Yes, the Sport can be made safer, but not with artificial turf. Let's try eliminating medications first. Imagine the uproar. Let's try making Trainers and Vets sign an affidavit as to the horses soundness first. Trainers and Vets will be in an uproar. Additionally, entrants for cheaper claiming races will go away.

The answer to catastrophic Equine injuries is not to have Horse Racing. Now who wants to give up their share of the money to save just one horse? Step up first and set the bar. ......Don't all factions rush to the front of the line.

THEN STOP THE F&%*ING WHINING and BLUBBERING. As long as we are racing horses, their will be injuries of all types.

Amen Bruddah!

We might as well turn the Race Tracks into museums with petting zoos and have slots in the clubhouse!

[fmolf]

Originally Posted by andymays

Amen Bruddah!

We might as well turn the Race Tracks into museums with petting zoos and have slots in the clubhouse!

Unfortunately that day may be coming!

[fmolf]

I wonder if the injuries horses are suffering on poly are somehow going undiagnosed by trainers because they are not used to looking for and dealing with the types of injuries horses sustain on the poly.Then the horses are being sent out by unknowing trainers....the horses stride and gait is compromised and he runs till he breaks down!...just an interesting thought i had.

[bane]

Since I work at a track that runs 40% Quarter Horses I am just amazed how many of these guys breakdown, and breakdown bad! Whats worse is it's always on the front stretch so everybody sees it and it can be enough to scare people away!

[11cashcall]

One other thing i notice is how horse's that ship to different venues ,their gallop/racing strides change.imo different surfaces,not just syn. having varing impacts on horse(s) bones that contribute to the injuries.

[FenceBored]

Originally Posted by bane

Since I work at a track that runs 40% Quarter Horses I am just amazed how many of these guys breakdown, and breakdown bad! Whats worse is it's always on the front stretch so everybody sees it and it can be enough to scare people away!

Just to be clear, are you saying the QHs are breaking down bad, or the TBs?

[bane]

Originally Posted by FenceBored

Just to be clear, are you saying the QHs are breaking down bad, or the TBs?

The QH's by far!