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Old 12-17-2017, 10:37 PM   #16
dilanesp
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The breakage issue which has gone on for 60 or more years has always been a crime and should be reduced to the penny on the dollar which would still be miniscule breakage because I know there won't be rounding up or down , just up . With that said, the takeout increases on exotic wagers has amounted to tens of millions more than breakage ever did. Especially in this day and age where exotics make up a much higher % of wagers than high breakage bets. WPS.
I don't think it's a 60 year ripoff. A breakage rule was actually fine back in the day, because all bets were collected from tellers at the track and eliminating pennies and nickels sped up cashing.

But in the modern era, where most bets are placed from computers, and on-track attendance is low, it has become theft. Tracks nowadays should break to the penny, and sure, if the tradeoff is the minimum payoff is 1 to 200 and there are fewer minus pools, that's worth it.
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Old 12-17-2017, 10:58 PM   #17
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Off topic. I've been watching replays this evening, and I feel like the race caller there is as good as any I hear from other tracks. Los Al is nuts, but they certainly did one thing right with the race caller they employed.

You've got to be kidding, his voice sounds like a funeral director and he's a jerk too. This summer, when a 1-5 shot ran out, Mr. Informative couldn't wait to announce exactly how much money show bettors lost on the race, to the dollar. I kid you not. I feel sorry for the lost souls who play Los Al QH racing, the track that rejoices when you lose your money. Announcers should stick to calling the races, and mind their own business when it comes to what customers bet. IMO, the worst track announcer in the business.
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Old 12-17-2017, 11:00 PM   #18
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I don't think it's a 60 year ripoff. A breakage rule was actually fine back in the day, because all bets were collected from tellers at the track and eliminating pennies and nickels sped up cashing.

But in the modern era, where most bets are placed from computers, and on-track attendance is low, it has become theft. Tracks nowadays should break to the penny, and sure, if the tradeoff is the minimum payoff is 1 to 200 and there are fewer minus pools, that's worth it.
It was always designed as a revenue maker. When it was nickel breakage a horse who paid $6.30 went to $6.20 when they went to dime breakage. Did giving away 2 dimes instead of 3 really speed up the lines?
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Old 12-17-2017, 11:05 PM   #19
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makes little difference, they have higher calculations for breakage in exotics too. they have it all figured out these days.
When a pick 4 pays 7700.20 instead of 7700.33 the % lost is miniscule. When take goes from 23% to 25% that pick 4 goes from 7700 to 7500. Both cases are theft in my opinion, but one is grand larceny. That's why breakage in exotic bets is barely an issue and is a huge issue with place and show bets.
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Old 12-17-2017, 11:20 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
I don't think it's a 60 year ripoff. A breakage rule was actually fine back in the day, because all bets were collected from tellers at the track and eliminating pennies and nickels sped up cashing.

But in the modern era, where most bets are placed from computers, and on-track attendance is low, it has become theft. Tracks nowadays should break to the penny, and sure, if the tradeoff is the minimum payoff is 1 to 200 and there are fewer minus pools, that's worth it.
Overall takeout was much lower at the time as well.
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Old 12-17-2017, 11:53 PM   #21
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Overall takeout was much lower at the time as well.
Well, that's because there were almost no exotic racing.

There's an argument that takeout is far lower now because exotic bets allow you to bet multiple horses and only pay one takeout. (Compared to a parlay, where you pay the takeout on each horse.)

Now, at some places WPS takeout is up too, of course. In California, interestingly, WPS takeout is under 16 percent now. For decades it was 17 percent here, so it is a bit lower now.
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
Well, that's because there were almost no exotic racing.

There's an argument that takeout is far lower now because exotic bets allow you to bet multiple horses and only pay one takeout. (Compared to a parlay, where you pay the takeout on each horse.)

Now, at some places WPS takeout is up too, of course. In California, interestingly, WPS takeout is under 16 percent now. For decades it was 17 percent here, so it is a bit lower now.
WPS takeout is up almost everywhere. It used to be around 10% most places when breakage came to be.
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Old 12-18-2017, 12:35 AM   #23
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WPS takeout is up almost everywhere. It used to be around 10% most places when breakage came to be.
It was never 10 percent in California. My mother remembers the 17 percent rate from when she started betting in 1951. It looks like it got down to 13 percent at times, got back up to 16.5 percent during the 1970's, and came back down to its current level (just under 16 percent) around 1979. The big change in California has been to jack up the exotic takeout a lot-- it used to be a percentage point higher than whatever the WPS takeout was until the late 1970's.

California racing was extremely successful in the 1970's and 1980's with what you would consider to be exorbitant takeouts plus dime breakage.

Last edited by dilanesp; 12-18-2017 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:14 AM   #24
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Well, that's because there were almost no exotic racing.

There's an argument that takeout is far lower now because exotic bets allow you to bet multiple horses and only pay one takeout. (Compared to a parlay, where you pay the takeout on each horse.)

Now, at some places WPS takeout is up too, of course. In California, interestingly, WPS takeout is under 16 percent now. For decades it was 17 percent here, so it is a bit lower now.
While there's "an argument" involving horizontal exotics like daily doubles that mirror parlays, there is no argument about vertical bets like exactas, trifectas and supers. The takeout for these bets is outrageous. Or is it your position that every time any horse is added to a bet another 25% should ripped off from the bettor?
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:22 AM   #25
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Who bets to show
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:39 AM   #26
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Who bets to show
There’s a couple guys in this thread who do it pretty well......

I watched em do it at Saratoga.
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Old 12-18-2017, 01:58 PM   #27
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I'll agree he's ok.
Apparently we (Oaklawn home track) have to put up with Stauffer for another two years. OJC surely didn't even audition him......
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Old 12-19-2017, 12:52 AM   #28
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You've got to be kidding, his voice sounds like a funeral director and he's a jerk too. This summer, when a 1-5 shot ran out, Mr. Informative couldn't wait to announce exactly how much money show bettors lost on the race, to the dollar. I kid you not. I feel sorry for the lost souls who play Los Al QH racing, the track that rejoices when you lose your money. Announcers should stick to calling the races, and mind their own business when it comes to what customers bet. IMO, the worst track announcer in the business.
They have a different race caller for the TBs and the QHs. I was talking about the TB caller. Maybe you were also, I can't be sure by your response. If so, all I can say is different strokes for different folks.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:49 AM   #29
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They have a different race caller for the TBs and the QHs. I was talking about the TB caller. Maybe you were also, I can't be sure by your response. If so, all I can say is different strokes for different folks.
Ultracapper; yes, I was talking about the QH announcer. No problem with the guy who calls the thoroughbreds, I agree he does a good job. Other than lack of other betting options, I can't think of a single good reason to spend a Sunday night (or any other night) on Los Al QH racing. In my opinion it's their location alone that keeps them in business. Between the short fields, the bleating sound of the announcer's voice, and the random cancellation of show betting, Los Al QH makes the trip from bad to worse a short hop.
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