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05-23-2018, 04:27 PM
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#61
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Who is "their" in their job? Is it the state? The horsemen or the tracks? Everyone (but the bettor) has a seat at the table and nothing gets through unless all are satisfied. I am just referring to California. It may be easier or harder in other states. I am sure Andy Asaro could fill you in on the difficulties of getting things accomplished through the CHRB. The problem is there are too many decision makers. Nobody will give up their seat or position based on somebody's theory about what would be good for the industry.
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I don't think that's the main problem at all. The CHRB worked just fine and there was enough for all the stakeholders when the sport was more popular. Even now, one of our tracks is very successful and another is not unsuccessful, despite having to deal with the CHRB. Indeed, we do better than most states do.
Get more people interested in horse racing again and believe me, nobody will complain about the bureaucracy.
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05-23-2018, 04:30 PM
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#62
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
I don't think that's the main problem at all. The CHRB worked just fine and there was enough for all the stakeholders when the sport was more popular. Even now, one of our tracks is very successful and another is not unsuccessful, despite having to deal with the CHRB. Indeed, we do better than most states do.
Get more people interested in horse racing again and believe me, nobody will complain about the bureaucracy.
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That's like saying..."Get more people interested in limit holdem again..."
Easier said than done.
__________________
Live to play another day.
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05-23-2018, 04:43 PM
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#63
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
That's like saying..."Get more people interested in limit holdem again..."
Easier said than done.
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Funny, at Hustler last night, there were about 5 tables of 4-8, 4 tables of 8-16, and 2 tables of 25-50.
So someone's playing limit, thask.
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05-23-2018, 05:39 PM
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#64
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
I don't think that's the main problem at all. The CHRB worked just fine and there was enough for all the stakeholders when the sport was more popular. Even now, one of our tracks is very successful and another is not unsuccessful, despite having to deal with the CHRB. Indeed, we do better than most states do.
Get more people interested in horse racing again and believe me, nobody will complain about the bureaucracy.
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If the CHRB worked just fine we wouldn't be having this discussion.
So your answer is for everyone to be like Del Mar, but only summer Del Mar.
Getting more people interested in racing will require a lot more than $15 margaritas and a Jackpot Pick 6.
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05-23-2018, 06:05 PM
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#65
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
If the CHRB worked just fine we wouldn't be having this discussion.
So your answer is for everyone to be like Del Mar, but only summer Del Mar.
Getting more people interested in racing will require a lot more than $15 margaritas and a Jackpot Pick 6.
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My answer is to have a lot less racing, so that the remaining meetings are special like summer Del Mar. And then to try to expand the audience.
And to not expect miracles.
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05-23-2018, 06:42 PM
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#66
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
My answer is to have a lot less racing, so that the remaining meetings are special like summer Del Mar. And then to try to expand the audience.
And to not expect miracles.
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Would you expect a "yes" vote from the horse owners and trainers?
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05-23-2018, 07:27 PM
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#67
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Would you expect a "yes" vote from the horse owners and trainers?
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No. But I think the states and the tracks have most of the leverage here.
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05-25-2018, 09:19 AM
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#68
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
I doubt that racing could be a major player in the gambling industry even if priced right. Too many good alternatives in place would be the primary reason. But I agree that it has no chance for survival being priced wrong.
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If it was less regulated there would probably be more hope.
If a track has to jump through hoops to change the takeout rate or add new bet types and too much of it costs are fixed as a percentage of revenue (as opposed to a percentage of the bottom line) there's isn't going to be much experimentation.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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05-25-2018, 12:37 PM
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#69
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
If it was less regulated there would probably be more hope.
If a track has to jump through hoops to change the takeout rate or add new bet types and too much of it costs are fixed as a percentage of revenue (as opposed to a percentage of the bottom line) there's isn't going to be much experimentation.
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How many hoops did Hayward jump through when he swiftly lowered the NYRA takeout in the aftermath of the takeout scandal of a few years ago?
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05-25-2018, 01:16 PM
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#70
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
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They were in violation of the law. Hayward had no choice.
Still it cost him his job.
Which is too bad imo.
Now we have 'raise the prices' Kay.
(Saratoga goes up again this year, twice now in less than 5 years)
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05-25-2018, 02:04 PM
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
They were in violation of the law. Hayward had no choice.
Still it cost him his job.
Which is too bad imo.
Now we have 'raise the prices' Kay.
(Saratoga goes up again this year, twice now in less than 5 years)
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Why wouldn't Saratoga go up?
You have a track that wealthy people travel to as a vacation destination. Staying in the town is very expensive (and in fact dwarfs whatever people pay for admission). It is also, other than the Belmont Stakes, NYRA's only chance to realize significant revenue from live patrons. And Saratoga can probably make even more money they more they charge (up to a point), because it will price out poorer patrons which will give the track a wealthier "feel" as it is filled up with more and more good looking people wearing nice clothes and hats, etc. Plus the track is small and it gets crowded when more than 30,000 people are there anyway.
It's pretty obvious that the correct business model is to charge nothing for Aqueduct, very little for Belmont (except on Belmont day and on a Breeders' Cup if they ever get one again), and a ton for Saratoga. NYRA is following that business model. As they should.
Not every horse racing date is about the regular horseplayer.
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05-25-2018, 02:22 PM
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#72
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
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Why not raise prices?
Because NYRA is rolling in dough.
Casino dole is paying for everything from purses to salaries to retirement.
Why do they have to charge more for the average family to have a nice day out?
Just because they can?
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05-25-2018, 02:25 PM
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#73
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
Why wouldn't Saratoga go up?
You have a track that wealthy people travel to as a vacation destination. Staying in the town is very expensive (and in fact dwarfs whatever people pay for admission). It is also, other than the Belmont Stakes, NYRA's only chance to realize significant revenue from live patrons. And Saratoga can probably make even more money they more they charge (up to a point), because it will price out poorer patrons which will give the track a wealthier "feel" as it is filled up with more and more good looking people wearing nice clothes and hats, etc. Plus the track is small and it gets crowded when more than 30,000 people are there anyway.
It's pretty obvious that the correct business model is to charge nothing for Aqueduct, very little for Belmont (except on Belmont day and on a Breeders' Cup if they ever get one again), and a ton for Saratoga. NYRA is following that business model. As they should.
Not every horse racing date is about the regular horseplayer.
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If they are old...instead of a senior discount they should get charged double
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05-25-2018, 02:26 PM
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#74
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 621
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They're going to soak NY taxpayers a couple hundred million to renovate Belmont in a couple of years.
They'll probably jack up prices after that too.
What do they ever do for the horseplayer with the FREE CASINO MONEY?
Ever once think of LOWERING TAKEOUT?
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05-25-2018, 02:28 PM
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Why not raise prices?
Because NYRA is rolling in dough.
Casino dole is paying for everything from purses to salaries to retirement.
Why do they have to charge more for the average family to have a nice day out?
Just because they can?
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Average families can have a nice day out at Belmont at very low prices.
Saratoga is something else entirely. It caters to a different crowd. And as I noted, I don't think many "average families" can afford the hotels and restaurants in town anyway.
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