Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 01-14-2019, 08:22 AM   #1
ZippyChippy423
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 188
Exotic betting in horse racing, why the long wait?

For years and years the only betting parimutuel tracks had was WPS and the DD. Why?
ZippyChippy423 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-14-2019, 09:53 AM   #2
ultracapper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
Things were great until they weren't. When they weren't, they added new items to attract new players.

Mo Pools, Mo Money
ultracapper is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-14-2019, 12:29 PM   #3
VigorsTheGrey
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultracapper View Post
Things were great until they weren't. When they weren't, they added new items to attract new players.

Mo Pools, Mo Money
What is the profile of the new bettor they are trying to attract with the new roulette wager at Santa Anita...?
VigorsTheGrey is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-14-2019, 12:39 PM   #4
ZippyChippy423
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey View Post
What is the profile of the new bettor they are trying to attract with the new roulette wager at Santa Anita...?
The same people that play the " moron " wheel at the casino and no not the roulette wheel.
ZippyChippy423 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-14-2019, 12:47 PM   #5
ronsmac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyChippy423 View Post
For years and years the only betting parimutuel tracks had was WPS and the DD. Why?
I may be wrong but wasn't it time consuming to compute the payoffs before technology improved? I've seen old programs where the DD pool closed 10 minutes before the 1st race. I know tracks like Oaklawn and Santa Anita were trying to protect the players from themselves or so they thought.
ronsmac is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-14-2019, 12:49 PM   #6
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyChippy423 View Post
For years and years the only betting parimutuel tracks had was WPS and the DD. Why?

There were extensive limitations on technology.


I have read a bit about how Caliente did the 5-10 (the prototype for the Pick Six) in the 1950's. Essentially they did it all by hand, placing tickets in baskets based on what horses were listed on them, and then narrowing the number of baskets and resorting after each race. They had ten or 15 employees working on the 5-10 exclusively.


Computers didn't start replacing totalisator machines (which were essentially mechanical adding machines linked together with wires and solenoids) until the mid-1960's. So anything more complicated than a daily double was basically impossible until then.


Further, computerized betting terminals didn't happen until my lifetime- the first one I saw was what I now know was an American Totalizator TM-300, in 1978 at Hollywood Park. Without computerized betting terminals, every combination needed to be printed on a separate ticket. Which led to stories like the one Andy Beyer told about the teller at Hialeah who patiently punched out 200 trifecta combinations for him, one by one. Hope nobody was in line behind him!!!!


Once the TM-300 came on line, it was only a couple of years before Marje Everett revived the 5-10, with the computers, as the Pick Six. And we were off and running.

Last edited by dilanesp; 01-14-2019 at 12:50 PM.
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-14-2019, 12:53 PM   #7
Gorrex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisville
Posts: 278
I love looking at pictures of the old mechanical totes.. amazing machinery.


https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/histor...JuliusMain.php
__________________

Jason Martin
IT Director
AmWest Entertainment - AmWager
Gorrex is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-18-2019, 01:29 AM   #8
theotherside
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: buffalo new york
Posts: 127
Tote

Absolutely incredible!
theotherside is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-18-2019, 08:22 AM   #9
Saratoga_Mike
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,893
Riveting question
Saratoga_Mike is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-18-2019, 08:38 AM   #10
GBL
Registered User
 
GBL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyChippy423 View Post
For years and years the only betting parimutuel tracks had was WPS and the DD. Why?
The wagers offering followed the same historical progression as purse money. In the early days the purse offerings was winner-take-all. But, as the racing of fields of horses came to predominate, a second prize came to be offered. Gradually, third and fourth prizes were added and occasionally fifth.

The same historical progression was followed for wagers, with the bets in early (two-horse) races being simply to win and modern bets being placed on the first three horses (win, place, and show). From private bets, wagering was extended in the 19th century to bookmaking. Later in that century, betting was taken over worldwide by the racetrack managements in the form of the pari-mutuel. An important innovation in pari-mutuel betting came in the 1920s with the development of the <I>totalizator, a mechanical device[/I] for issuing and recording betting tickets. Modern totalizators, usually computers, calculate betting pools and current odds on each horse and flash these figures to the public at regular intervals. They may also display race results, payoff amounts, running times, and other information. Increasingly sophisticated equipment has encouraged introduction of a variety of combination bets, such as the daily double , exacta, or perfecta , quinella , pick six, and all others .

Last edited by GBL; 01-18-2019 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Correction
GBL is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-18-2019, 09:03 AM   #11
Tom
The Voice of Reason!
 
Tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,354
When I started playing, you had to go to separate windows to bet W,P or S, or DD. They had a WP window and WPS window. Each window had a single denomination, ie, $2W, $5P, etc. Technology back then was not very advanced.
Why, the only major thing that had been done nationwide was.......LAND ON THE MOON!
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Tom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-18-2019, 09:44 AM   #12
Gorrex
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisville
Posts: 278
Here's even more history of totes and a lot of old pictures..

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bconlon/

Mainly Julius/AutoTote
__________________

Jason Martin
IT Director
AmWest Entertainment - AmWager
Gorrex is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-19-2019, 12:07 AM   #13
Nitro
Registered User
 
Nitro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 18,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyChippy423 View Post
For years and years the only betting parimutuel tracks had was WPS and the DD. Why?
What game are you referring to? Where do you come up with this B.S.?
I've been in this game for 50 years and was playing Triples and Exactas in NY when I started. The triples were paying like Supers do today. In fact, even a track like Bowie that operated in the Winter had those type of bets that offered some phenomenal returns!

So where have you been?
Nitro is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-19-2019, 05:20 AM   #14
dilanesp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro View Post
What game are you referring to? Where do you come up with this B.S.?
I've been in this game for 50 years and was playing Triples and Exactas in NY when I started. The triples were paying like Supers do today. In fact, even a track like Bowie that operated in the Winter had those type of bets that offered some phenomenal returns!

So where have you been?
I am fairly sure there were no Trifectas in 1969.
dilanesp is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-20-2019, 06:56 PM   #15
ultracapper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
Probably '84 or '85 first time I ever saw a trifecta offered. It was offered on a race they piped in from the NE. I even remember the winner of the race Waquat, or something like that. A fairly accomplished race horse, if I remember correctly. So whenever s/he was winning in Jersey or NY was first time I ever even heard of it. The next year LGA offered a $3 tri on races with 8 or more entries. It wasn't long before you could bet it in 5 horse fields.
ultracapper is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.