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Old 03-16-2019, 08:20 AM   #46
Parkview_Pirate
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Originally Posted by sour grapes View Post
why all the doom and gloom,the economy is fine,its just that racing has not changed with the times that contributes to its decline.People will gamble,maybe not racing since to learn how to play is too costly to get started with the learning curve along with the high expense to attend at the track.
Surprised my outlook doesn't resonate with a poster named "sour grapes".
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:50 AM   #47
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technology saved racing

simulcast and computer wagering

7.5 billion people in the world

probably 2 billion have enough resources to make a bet

a few million consider betting on horses

racing is not in danger of disappearing

gross volume might decline or advance depending on management initiatives

racetrack Managers are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

probably will decline some
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:49 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Unicorn View Post
This is just a question to throw out and start a discussion about racing. Do you think racing as a whole is declining or gaining more handicappers? Whether it is the occasional player, newbies, experienced handicappers, or even professionals. I'm in my thirties now and most of the people i run into at my local tracks are usually retirees. This makes me think racing is a dying sport in some ways. Just interested to see people's thoughts on this subject.
You think people are old at the track, go to the Symphony sometime.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:01 PM   #49
bob60566
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Casino and technology has saved the day for horse racing without a doubt.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:41 PM   #50
HalvOnHorseracing
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A few years ago, I started a thread "Time for Contraction".....It was a lively discussion:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...47#post2206147
I know no one wants to believe it, but if the smaller tracks disappeared it would make absolutely no difference. The horses at places like Arapahoe Park simply cannot compete at Santa Anita or Saratoga or a bunch of other tracks. You accomplish nothing by closing these tracks unless you believe the total handle of $50K per weekend race day will make a difference at wherever they choose to bet it. The handle on one race at SA exceeds the daily handle at some of these small parks.*

It's not that I would be happy if a bunch of tracks close, but I'll say what I've always said. Medium size tracks closing would make a far bigger impact because they have horses that can compete at the "A" level tracks. However, even the small tracks create jobs and add horses (because of the attraction of state-bred races).

I've thought 20-22 tracks distributed across the time zones so you had racing every day from about noon to 11:00 pm would be a good set up. You don't have to agree--just a few thoughts.


*In Colorado there is actually a law that requires 39 racing days per year in order to allow betting at other tracks. I just used the track to make a point.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:49 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Smoke View Post
technology saved racing

simulcast and computer wagering

7.5 billion people in the world

probably 2 billion have enough resources to make a bet

a few million consider betting on horses

racing is not in danger of disappearing

gross volume might decline or advance depending on management initiatives

racetrack Managers are not the sharpest knives in the drawer

probably will decline some
I think that some technology has hurt racing. The fact that you have the projected pace and winners printed has killed the pay outs across the board. The casual player doesn't have to put in the work to be on a almost even par with the studied player, thus lower pay out.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:50 PM   #52
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The casual player doesn't have to put in the work to be on a almost even par with the studied player

LOL - nothing could be more upside down and wrong.


The studied player walks into the track to play a game where the handle can be anticipated to exact a 16-20% toll on each of his wagers.


The casual player presently walks into the track to play the same game while facing an equation that exacts a 30% toll on his wagers (much like the idiot score on a true/false test).

(*** see another thread at this website where said studied players are finally awakened to the reality of that -30-ish percent norms are most typical for the new and casual players).


Racing could easily begin to repair itself by striving to make your misguided prophecy a reality, but track management has been so narrow-minded for so long that they just keep doing what they've done wrong for decades while failing miserably at utilizing and optimizing their edge over other games of chance.

Casino games and the state lottery don't have the same flaw which has been known to racing all along. The "studied player" and the "casual player" each play the same game with the same equations in those scenarios, and as such those games have far more vast followings.

The guy at the gas station knows that he has exactly the same odds as you do when he steps up to purchase his Powerball ticket, and he keeps playing. The casual player at the track doesn't take long to figure out that he's at a massive disadvantage upon arrival, and he typically never returns.

Racing continues to do zero for that casual player and the results are crowds with fewer and fewer casual players every week.

It's a simple equation and a simple solution, but nobody cares...
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:08 PM   #53
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Agree with (roughly) everything you just posted.

Care to post your simple solution?


-jp

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Old 03-18-2019, 04:05 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by AskinHaskin View Post
LOL - nothing could be more upside down and wrong.


The studied player walks into the track to play a game where the handle can be anticipated to exact a 16-20% toll on each of his wagers.


The casual player presently walks into the track to play the same game while facing an equation that exacts a 30% toll on his wagers (much like the idiot score on a true/false test).

(*** see another thread at this website where said studied players are finally awakened to the reality of that -30-ish percent norms are most typical for the new and casual players).


Racing could easily begin to repair itself by striving to make your misguided prophecy a reality, but track management has been so narrow-minded for so long that they just keep doing what they've done wrong for decades while failing miserably at utilizing and optimizing their edge over other games of chance.

Casino games and the state lottery don't have the same flaw which has been known to racing all along. The "studied player" and the "casual player" each play the same game with the same equations in those scenarios, and as such those games have far more vast followings.

The guy at the gas station knows that he has exactly the same odds as you do when he steps up to purchase his Powerball ticket, and he keeps playing. The casual player at the track doesn't take long to figure out that he's at a massive disadvantage upon arrival, and he typically never returns.

Racing continues to do zero for that casual player and the results are crowds with fewer and fewer casual players every week.

It's a simple equation and a simple solution, but nobody cares...
I don't think a casual player realizes anything regarding the disadvantage he/she faces. What they do realize is that losing money at the track isn't nearly as fun as losing money at a casino or betting their favorite sports teams.
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:37 PM   #55
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I don't think a casual player realizes anything regarding the disadvantage he/she faces. What they do realize is that losing money at the track isn't nearly as fun as losing money at a casino or betting their favorite sports teams.


Couldn't agree more. When the casual gambler loses at the roulette table...he knows that he was a victim of fate. When he bets a sharp-looking horse and gets beaten by a longshot...he thinks that he was beaten by larceny.
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:57 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by AskinHaskin View Post

Recently the bone-headed, wrong thinking prevalent on this website and around racing as a whole has finally shone a light on the difference between the misguided perception that newcomers are playing the same 16-20% "random-loss" game that most handicappers approach... and the reality that has the newcomers facing a far steeper challenge/house-cut.


.
Only if they truly pick random horses. If they stick with the public’s top three choices. They have some chance. With my wife, when we go to the track together. I will handicap the races and give her two or three horses to choose from. She has a decent chance of cashing the bet and that’s what she is interested in. That and gray horses. Oh I picked a winner....lol.

She cash a few bets at Saratoga/Monmouth she is happy.

Allan
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by AskinHaskin View Post
Casino games and the state lottery don't have the same flaw which has been known to racing all along. The "studied player" and the "casual player" each play the same game with the same equations in those scenarios, and as such those games have far more vast followings.

The guy at the gas station knows that he has exactly the same odds as you do when he steps up to purchase his Powerball ticket, and he keeps playing. The casual player at the track doesn't take long to figure out that he's at a massive disadvantage upon arrival, and he typically never returns.
What!? Are you saying that we need to make the game such that there's no difference between a "studied player" and a "casual player"?? I read this to mean you want horse racing to be something like craps or roulette i.e. no possible way to win in the long run. Forgive me if I misinterpreted...
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:52 PM   #58
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OK then explain the favorites paying so low. You have a 6/5 and lower in most races. It's unusual to see a 5/2 choice today.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:42 PM   #59
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Of the dozens of friends I’ve invited to the track, only a handful have ever taken me up on it. I’ve only converted my best friend into a horseplayer and fan.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:57 AM   #60
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money goes to money. the big bettors have the advantage simply because they have a 12 percent rebate. their performance at handicapping can be alot worse than us little guy's. we are facing a 20% disadvantage up front. the big bettors that have 12% rebates aren't. capice?
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