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Old 03-17-2019, 11:15 AM   #106
chadk66
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Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
Six of the 22 horses (27.3%) suffering fatal breakdowns at Santa Anita had previously raced on a sealed surface within a few weeks of their fatal breakdown.

The chart below was originally posted by Pyshcotic Parakeet here:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...&postcount=164
What are the stats nationwide? In some areas of the country you could say that for damn near every horse on the track. They didn’t just start sealing tracks this year lol. That’s been done forever. Have you ever galloped a horse on a sealed track?
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:16 PM   #107
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Have you ever galloped a horse on a sealed track?[/QUOTE]

How is it (sealed tracks) on horses galloping? thanks
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:17 PM   #108
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I read where Santa Anita fired the track superintendent last October, but couldn't verify this-is that true?
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:49 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by chadk66 View Post
Have you ever galloped a horse on a sealed track?
Have you ever used a max likelihood function to perform predictive modeling?

Seriously though, here's what I do know:

Jeremy Balan was The Blood-Horse reporter assigned to cover Santa Anita. He had a reputation for writing the truth. Within the past week he was forced to resign. (Read into that what you will.)

When reporters from the Associated Press began writing about the situation at Santa Anita, they wrote about microfractures.

APNews.com | By PAUL NEWBERRY | Friday March 8, 2019
Column: Horse racing needs to clean up its act _ or go away:
https://apnews.com/ecd8fa29fdfd4da68...ign=SocialFlow

Quote:
"These are orthopedic failures, not single-step failures. The horse didn’t step in a hole. The horse didn’t take a bad step," she said. "If you bend a paper clip back and forth 200 times, then put it back in shape so it looks brand new and hand to me, the next time I bend it, it might come apart in two pieces even though I insist I did not bend it hard. That’s how these fractures occur."

It starts with a microfracture. Then a small, partial fracture. Finally, in the heat of a big race or perhaps just a light training session, the bone shatters.

It seems sudden, a fluke.

Most likely, it’s not.

"This is really just the normal physiological consequence of an increasing workload," Lyons said. "Take a human runner. Most runners know that when they increase their distances and then say, ‘Boy, my shins were killing me last night after a run,’ that they need to back off for the next week. They need to let it heal. What they do with horses is give them anti-inflammatories without a diagnosis, then keep training and racing."

Lyons said new technology is being developed that would allow a CT scan to be performed in a matter of minutes on a horse’s front and rear legs, which could be a revolutionary step forward in equine medical care. But the industry must be willing to pay for the machines, which are expected to cost about $300,000 apiece. Also, there must be enforcement in place to ensure that when a potential problem is discovered, the horse is kept off the track until fully healed."
To date, none of the so called racing journalists covering the situation at Santa Anita have even mentioned the word microfracture.

If I am wrong about that: somebody please jump in and correct me.

I decided to do some digging on my own. I began by using Google to search for phrases like "microfracture" and "thoroughbred" (without the quotes) and went from there.

I discovered that a LOT of information exists on the topic.

The CHRB has been performing necropsies on horses suffering fatal breakdowns in California for years. Link to their 2014-2015 report here:
http://www.chrb.ca.gov/veterinary_re...ual_report.pdf

I also came across a subtopic that caught my eye - a class of drug called bisphosphonates.

Bisphosphonates are a drug class primarily used to promote increased bone density in human osteoporosis patients.

Bisphosphonates have also been used as a therapeutic for thoroughbreds.

It turns out that bisphosphonates have a side effect in thoroughbreds. In layman's terms, the new bone material that bisphosphonates promotes looks solid in x-rays and radiographs - but is actually much weaker than bone material that grows naturally if you simply give the horse time off to heal.

I was also able to determine that at least two vets had been using bisphosphonates on the Santa Anita backside.

In 2017, the CHRB's Medical Director, Dr. Rick Arthur, gave an alarming quote when interviewed in an article about bisphosphonates.

Daniel Ross | October 03, 2017 |
The bone disease treatment drugs that may be putting young horses at risk:
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/a...g-horses-risk/

Quote:
This has the effect of making the diagnosis of brewing bone conditions hard to do with things like x-ray machines, for the dead bone material can give the impression of everything appearing okay, said Rick Arthur, California Horse Racing Board equine medical director.

“The concern is bisphosphonates make bone look good on radiographs,” he said. “When in fact, the bone is weakened.”
In 2018, Dr. Larry Bramlage (Rood and Riddle Equine Hospital) gave the following quote when interviewed in an article about bisphosphonates.

by Natalie Voss | 03.01.2018 | 5:13pm
Bramlage: ‘Price To Pay’ For Bisphosphonate Use Is Delayed Healing:
https://www.paulickreport.com/horse-...layed-healing/

Quote:
“I've spent 40 years looking at horses' bones trying to understand the process of damage and repair that we consistently deal with in the racehorse. In the last two years we've had horses' injuries that don't behave anything like they did in my first 40 years,” he said. “We can no longer depend on the repair process that we have come to expect as normal for the horse. Bisphosphonates also 'mute' the normal bone turnover we depend on in bone scans.”
Last week, Pyschotic Parakeet posted a chart showing that 6 of the 22 horses suffering fatal breakdowns at Santa Anita had recently raced on a sealed track surface. Link here: http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...&postcount=164

Imo, that was enough (for me) to connect some dots.

Last week, I contacted the CHRB and gave them the above information. I also asked if they had looked at the vet bills of the 22 deceased horses to determine if any of the 22 had been treated with bisphosphonates.

My intent in contacting the CHRB comes from a place of wanting to see no stone unturned in discovering the actual cause behind the 22 recent fatal breakdowns.

I also apologized to the CHRB in advance if I was asking them to look at something they had already eliminated as a possible cause.

Look, even though my gut is telling me (based on years of predictive modeling work) that the dots I've connected so far probably lead in the right direction --

At this point I don't really know.

I don't have access to the raw data the CHRB has been compiling on the 1000's of horse necropsies in California over the years. Nor do I have access to the vet bills of those horses.

In the end, that makes me just an armchair quarterback with a database.

Right now as I type this The L.A. County Sherrif's Office is conducting their own investigation. They have a competent medical examiner who will undoubtedly look at the CHRB's fatal breakdown data.

Now you know what I know.

By the way:

Happy Saint Patrick's Day.



-jp

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Last edited by Jeff P; 03-17-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 01:54 PM   #110
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I hope horse racing in California does not end up greyhound racing in Florida.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:00 PM   #111
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I hope horse racing in California does not end up greyhound racing in Florida.
Does it count that every time I have gone to Santa Anita, I have bet on at least one dog?
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:18 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
Seriously though, here's what I do know:

Jeremy Balan was The Blood-Horse reporter assigned to cover Santa Anita. He had a reputation for writing the truth. Within the past week he was forced to resign. (Read into that what you will.)

.
I saw this on twitter. Because of who was in his reply's, it caught my eye.
This is a story. The bottom of this story will tell you a lot. I hope the people in his replies do get to the bottom of it.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:31 PM   #113
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Just like I boycotted Keeneland during their rate hike period, where I didn't miss them, I'm not missing Santa either.

And since I don't trust betting horses off layoffs, when they do race again I will stay away longer.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:54 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
Seriously though, here's what I do know:

Jeremy Balan was The Blood-Horse reporter assigned to cover Santa Anita. He had a reputation for writing the truth. Within the past week he was forced to resign. (Read into that what you will.)


.
You know that? He resigned. Forced to resign? You don't KNOW that.

I'm not defending anything that may or may not have gone on, and the idea of silencing the media ( a particularly serious problem right now ) is abhorrent to me, but I'm not confident you have your facts straight here.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:30 PM   #115
chadk66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
Have you ever used a max likelihood function to perform predictive modeling?

Seriously though, here's what I do know:

Jeremy Balan was The Blood-Horse reporter assigned to cover Santa Anita. He had a reputation for writing the truth. Within the past week he was forced to resign. (Read into that what you will.)

When reporters from the Associated Press began writing about the situation at Santa Anita, they wrote about microfractures.

APNews.com | By PAUL NEWBERRY | Friday March 8, 2019
Column: Horse racing needs to clean up its act _ or go away:
https://apnews.com/ecd8fa29fdfd4da68...ign=SocialFlow



To date, none of the so called racing journalists covering the situation at Santa Anita have even mentioned the word microfracture.

If I am wrong about that: somebody please jump in and correct me.

I decided to do some digging on my own. I began by using Google to search for phrases like "microfracture" and "thoroughbred" (without the quotes) and went from there.

I discovered that a LOT of information exists on the topic.

The CHRB has been performing necropsies on horses suffering fatal breakdowns in California for years. Link to their 2014-2015 report here:
http://www.chrb.ca.gov/veterinary_re...ual_report.pdf

I also came across a subtopic that caught my eye - a class of drug called bisphosphonates.

Bisphosphonates are a drug class primarily used to promote increased bone density in human osteoporosis patients.

Bisphosphonates have also been used as a therapeutic for thoroughbreds.

It turns out that bisphosphonates have a side effect in thoroughbreds. In layman's terms, the new bone material that bisphosphonates promotes looks solid in x-rays and radiographs - but is actually much weaker than bone material that grows naturally if you simply give the horse time off to heal.

I was also able to determine that at least two vets had been using bisphosphonates on the Santa Anita backside.

In 2017, the CHRB's Medical Director, Dr. Rick Arthur, gave an alarming quote when interviewed in an article about bisphosphonates.

Daniel Ross | October 03, 2017 |
The bone disease treatment drugs that may be putting young horses at risk:
https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/a...g-horses-risk/



In 2018, Dr. Larry Bramlage (Rood and Riddle Equine Hospital) gave the following quote when interviewed in an article about bisphosphonates.

by Natalie Voss | 03.01.2018 | 5:13pm
Bramlage: ‘Price To Pay’ For Bisphosphonate Use Is Delayed Healing:
https://www.paulickreport.com/horse-...layed-healing/



Last week, Pyschotic Parakeet posted a chart showing that 6 of the 22 horses suffering fatal breakdowns at Santa Anita had recently raced on a sealed track surface. Link here: http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...&postcount=164

Imo, that was enough (for me) to connect some dots.

Last week, I contacted the CHRB and gave them the above information. I also asked if they had looked at the vet bills of the 22 deceased horses to determine if any of the 22 had been treated with bisphosphonates.

My intent in contacting the CHRB comes from a place of wanting to see no stone unturned in discovering the actual cause behind the 22 recent fatal breakdowns.

I also apologized to the CHRB in advance if I was asking them to look at something they had already eliminated as a possible cause.

Look, even though my gut is telling me (based on years of predictive modeling work) that the dots I've connected so far probably lead in the right direction --

At this point I don't really know.

I don't have access to the raw data the CHRB has been compiling on the 1000's of horse necropsies in California over the years. Nor do I have access to the vet bills of those horses.

In the end, that makes me just an armchair quarterback with a database.

Right now as I type this The L.A. County Sherrif's Office is conducting their own investigation. They have a competent medical examiner who will undoubtedly look at the CHRB's fatal breakdown data.

Now you know what I know.

By the way:

Happy Saint Patrick's Day.



-jp

.
very interesting. You won’t find bisphosphonate on any vet bills if there is even a question about it. It will be coded as something else. Micro fractures in themselves aren’t new. That is essentially what shin buck in young horses is. Although they were referred to as saucer fractures. They need to blood test the dead horses. But you can bet if that drug is the problem this will start happening all over the country. That drug certainly be used strictly at SA
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:36 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by chadk66 View Post
I keep reading statements about sealed tracks. What is your issue or feeling regarding that
I have to be honest and say I'm learning more from this thread than I'm contributing, but what I THINK I'm hearing is that sealed tracks are harder on the runners than if they were just harrowed. And my impression is that there could be microfractures resulting from this extraordinary wear and tear.

I agree with you that Cali trainers and vets probably aren't doing anything unusual to their horses that trainers in other jurisdictions aren't also doing. So what's the isolated factor that could be leading to these breakdown developments? Track maintenance?
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:39 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Afleet View Post
Have you ever galloped a horse on a sealed track?
How is it (sealed tracks) on horses galloping? thanks[/QUOTE]
It feels exactly like galloping on the turf. Except it’s louder due to the sound of splashing water. It doesn’t feel any harder on a horse than turf. Sound can be a strange thing. Galloping on dirt is generally felt to be very cushioned due to the muffled sound caused by the soft dirt. But we all know tracks forgiveness varies from track to track. One thing I will tell you is no two horses travel or feel the same when riding. I think many assume they do. But I could be blindfolded and tell who every one of my horses were just by the way they traveled. Another thing many people do not understand is when a horse is racing they are in a four beat gate meaning they never have more than one foot on the ground at a time. Ever. Those front legs are very vulnerable under that circumstance given a horse carries 100# of its weight probably times two on its front legs while running. Back to sealing. It is done to force water to the top so it runs off therefore preventing damage to the base especially holes which aren’t easily filled in and leveled by a simple harrow. Not sealing creates a huge risk to horses to take a bad step. We’ve all stepped into slight divots while walking or jogging. It’s not pleasant. Now think about doing that running wide open.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:44 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by ultracapper View Post
I have to be honest and say I'm learning more from this thread than I'm contributing, but what I THINK I'm hearing is that sealed tracks are harder on the runners than if they were just harrowed. And my impression is that there could be microfractures resulting from this extraordinary wear and tear.

I agree with you that Cali trainers and vets probably aren't doing anything unusual to their horses that trainers in other jurisdictions aren't also doing. So what's the isolated factor that could be leading to these breakdown developments? Track maintenance?
running on a sealed surface isn’t as good as a dry soft cushion. But it’s not really something I would consider detrimental. I have breezed many many horses on sealed tracks and probably galloped at least a thousand miles on them. It’s not the factor I can assure you. My gut instinct tells me the base on that track is full of bad spots. Are there other contributing factors? Quite possibly. But I haven’t seen anything yet that points that direction. The bone drug mentioned above is interesting but you can be guaranteed it’s being used nationwide then. So unless this starts happening on a nationwide basis I think you can throw it out.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:49 PM   #119
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You know that? He resigned. Forced to resign? You don't KNOW that.

I'm not defending anything that may or may not have gone on, and the idea of silencing the media ( a particularly serious problem right now ) is abhorrent to me, but I'm not confident you have your facts straight here.
Andy, you're right. (I stand corrected.)

Allow me to rephrase my post:
Quote:
Is it safe to say that Jeremy Balan had a reputation for reporting the truth?

That his many followers had a hard time not noticing his Twitter account had inexplicably gone silent just as the situation at Santa Anita really started heating up?

That he has resigned from The Blood-Horse and is now looking for a job?

And that in my opinion, all of this gives the appearance he was not only being silenced but was also forced out.
Better?


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Old 03-17-2019, 03:53 PM   #120
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running on a sealed surface isn’t as good as a dry soft cushion. But it’s not really something I would consider detrimental. I have breezed many many horses on sealed tracks and probably galloped at least a thousand miles on them. It’s not the factor I can assure you. My gut instinct tells me the base on that track is full of bad spots. Are there other contributing factors? Quite possibly. But I haven’t seen anything yet that points that direction. The bone drug mentioned above is interesting but you can be guaranteed it’s being used nationwide then. So unless this starts happening on a nationwide basis I think you can throw it out.
When is the last year you trained? Also, have you ever ran a horse on this particular surface?

I mean no one is really going to believe all sealed surfaces are the same, right?
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