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03-15-2019, 01:19 PM
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#76
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Phinney
So you think that unsound horses exist only in California?
Or is it that medications only cause breakdowns in California?
The only thing different about this meet at Santa Anita than 100's of others it held before was the rain. It's affect on the track and how the track officials managed the surface during the rain should be front and center issue #1. What have the really come out and told us about what they have found?
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You’re also wrong about what is different. Different racing secretary. I don’t remember what thread I posted it in but there’s a Bloodhorse article which gives a good idea about what’s been going on. You should read it.
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03-15-2019, 02:09 PM
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 510
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If they ran on Cotton Balls there would be break downs.
That is how we will explain the Turf tragedies
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03-15-2019, 02:17 PM
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahossdaboss
Let’s assume you and Chad are correct. How do you explain the turf breakdowns? Please don’t say wet turf like he did. My head might explode.
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You know the numbers for fatalities seem to be all over the place, but the best I can tell last year the turf course had 10 fatalities in total. 5 of the deaths this year have been on the turf course. So it's hard to say if this year is even out of the norm for the turf course.
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03-15-2019, 02:20 PM
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#79
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahossdaboss
You’re also wrong about what is different. Different racing secretary. I don’t remember what thread I posted it in but there’s a Bloodhorse article which gives a good idea about what’s been going on. You should read it.
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OK, I'll buy that a change in other track officials could be to blame here. I've also seen articles related to the track being overused, I'd buy that too.
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03-15-2019, 02:21 PM
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahossdaboss
Let’s assume you and Chad are correct. How do you explain the turf breakdowns? Please don’t say wet turf like he did. My head might explode.
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How damn hard is it to understand turf reacts infavorably to massive rainfall just like the main track? Do they continue to race on turf during the rain or when they have had a lot of rain?
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03-15-2019, 02:33 PM
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#81
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadk66
How damn hard is it to understand turf reacts infavorably to massive rainfall just like the main track? Do they continue to race on turf during the rain or when they have had a lot of rain?
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You’ve got a wrong answer for everything. Quite impressive actually.
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03-15-2019, 03:06 PM
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#82
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph
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I love these people......yet you won't see them protesting kill pens, dont get on tv that way.
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03-15-2019, 03:39 PM
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#83
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 18,945
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Sorry, but if these accidents and horse fatalities are related to the track conditions (both dirt and turf) at SA, I would have to agree that logically one would have to consider the inordinate amount of rainfall recently in CA.
Yes, they certainly run on the grass in many other parts of the world under yielding conditions. However, if anyone actually believes that the drainage system is the same at every track in the world, they’re only kidding themselves. Although I’m aware of superior drainage at certain tracks, I’m not going to make those comparisons with SA because I have no idea what’s in place there. In my opinion, I would think it might be a good idea to check that out first.
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03-15-2019, 04:23 PM
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#84
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadk66
How damn hard is it to understand turf reacts infavorably to massive rainfall just like the main track? Do they continue to race on turf during the rain or when they have had a lot of rain?
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In Europe they do.
There is no dirt to switch to.
If wet grass is the problem, then the CAUSE is a-hole trainers who let their horses run over it and a-hole racing officials who do not cancel the races.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
Last edited by Tom; 03-15-2019 at 04:24 PM.
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03-15-2019, 05:59 PM
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro
Sorry, but if these accidents and horse fatalities are related to the track conditions (both dirt and turf) at SA, I would have to agree that logically one would have to consider the inordinate amount of rainfall recently in CA.
Yes, they certainly run on the grass in many other parts of the world under yielding conditions. However, if anyone actually believes that the drainage system is the same at every track in the world, they’re only kidding themselves. Although I’m aware of superior drainage at certain tracks, I’m not going to make those comparisons with SA because I have no idea what’s in place there. In my opinion, I would think it might be a good idea to check that out first.
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While I don't endorse the concept that this is solely related to track conditions (I think the fragility of horses has something to do with it as well), Nitro raises a very good point about turf courses.
California turf courses are very much engineered based on the type of weather we have here and the seasons when the courses are used. Del Mar, before it created its fall meeting, used to have an extremely lush turf course with different grasses than Hollywood and Santa Anita. Hollywood's, which had to run summer and late fall, was the consistency of a pool table with short Bermuda grass. Santa Anita's had a lot more sand in it, and I believe even contained an embedded netting for drainage, because Santa Anita ran in the rainy season.
So you can't simply say "they run on yielding courses at Longchamps" or whatever. Those are very different breeds of grass, with different drainage systems. Santa Anita's course is its own unique animal.
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03-16-2019, 08:37 AM
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#86
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,414
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It’ll be easy to figure out if it’s drugs. When all these horses leave SA for somewhere else if the breakdowns follow the horses you’ll know. If not you’ll know it was the track
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03-16-2019, 09:09 AM
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#87
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadk66
It’ll be easy to figure out if it’s drugs. When all these horses leave SA for somewhere else if the breakdowns follow the horses you’ll know. If not you’ll know it was the track
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I’m not sure if you’re being obtuse on purpose or not but I don’t see anyone just blaming drugs. Most people are smart enough to realize it’s a combination of things. One of those things is trainers running or training horses they should not. Why are you so closed minded to that?
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03-16-2019, 09:49 AM
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 2,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadk66
It’ll be easy to figure out if it’s drugs. When all these horses leave SA for somewhere else if the breakdowns follow the horses you’ll know. If not you’ll know it was the track
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The breakdowns will not be following the 22 horses that are deceased.
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03-16-2019, 10:02 AM
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#89
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,414
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Look there is zero evidence pointing towards drug use at this time. When that happens then I’ll be on board with that. Sure they use shit they shouldn’t but they don’t just use it in California. They use it all over. And how many of these California trainers have horses at other tracks? Quite a damn few I’d guess. And does anybody have breakdown numbers on turf vs number of races? I bet it’s not really that far off from dirt. Your going to always have slightly less in relation to dirt simply because much better and more sound horses run on grass vs dirt. Just a hunch I have.
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03-16-2019, 10:18 AM
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#90
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 148
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I've been attending the races at Tampa for 20 years now, mostly weekends. I have no stats to back me up, so just observation and what I've heard from horseman. Tampa seems very safe, relatively speaking. If true, might it be wise to find out why? Are there any truly accurate stats available?
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