1m40 yard race and 1m70y races

[Al Gobbi]

Oaklawn used to used the alternate finish line for 5 1/2 furlong races. They would start at the standard 6F spot and end at the 16th pole.

I think they stopped doing that around 2004-05.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Al Gobbi

Oaklawn used to used the alternate finish line for 5 1/2 furlong races. They would start at the standard 6F spot and end at the 16th pole.

I think they stopped doing that around 2004-05.

They still do for mile races.

[Bennie]

Don't you love it when they do that and the jock on your horse miss judges the finish line and stands up and gets nailed at the proper finish line by someone else

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by cj

Curious if people are aware of how these races are timed. I've heard a few explanations, but one thing I'm nearly certain of is these are not true times.

For example, for the 2f time in a 1m70y race, there is definitely not a timing pole at the point 2f from the start of the race, and the same goes for 4f, 6f, etc.

Not sure here, I don't have any inside detail on it. Been many years since I've been on track observing so I could be wrong, I'm almost sure I've seen a beam near the gate at these odd distances just like the others. So at a track like FL at 1-70 you have the beam tripped after the break and then at the wire we know it's tripped because that's a mile out so the 70 yard time should be known. From the gate then to the 3/4 pole would be a known time for the entire first quarter plus the 70 yards -- from there I suspect they just subtract. Didn't Ragozin say in his book that his team found one or two of the tracks were just using some constant number of seconds? It wasn't even the actual time for the 70, it was like 4 seconds no matter what. I forgot the details and don't want to misquote. Granted leaving the gate in a route I imagine it's 4.2 seconds an awful lot of the time but using a constant (if that's what they're doing anywhere) is just wrong.

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I didn't even know this was an issue.

Every time I read one of these threads about some issue with the timing of fractions and final times it pushes me further in the right direction of thinking looking at the quality of the horses in the field, watching the races, and looking at the charts is the better approach. Unfortunately, there are other issues that come up in that form of handicapping from time to time that make the times of race indispensable, if not always trustworthy. Tough game to be confident.

The timing issue is the only reason I walked away from it and have not regretted it but kudos to CJ for going to the trouble for his customers. I respect anyone who puts in the effort.

[delayjf]

I know Santa Anita used to use an extra long run up in its mile races to add distance to the run to the first turn.

[proximity]

i always thought they had beams 70 yds before the poles that they could activate for these races???

next time i watch one live, i'll try and see if they put up the 1/4 time before they reach the 6f pole?????

[wiffleball whizz]

Originally Posted by Bennie

Don't you love it when they do that and the jock on your horse miss judges the finish line and stands up and gets nailed at the proper finish line by someone else

Laurel has this also....actually they have 4 wires...2 on turf and 2 on dirt

The have red rights lit up on the wires they use for the race.....laurel park is good with that

[cj]

Originally Posted by delayjf

I know Santa Anita used to use an extra long run up in its mile races to add distance to the run to the first turn.

They still do, like a 1/4 furlong.

[cj]

Originally Posted by proximity

i always thought they had beams 70 yds before the poles that they could activate for these races???

next time i watch one live, i'll try and see if they put up the 1/4 time before they reach the 6f pole?????

They definitely do not have those 70 yards before each of the poles.

[cj]

Originally Posted by MJC922

Not sure here, I don't have any inside detail on it. Been many years since I've been on track observing so I could be wrong, I'm almost sure I've seen a beam near the gate at these odd distances just like the others. So at a track like FL at 1-70 you have the beam tripped after the break and then at the wire we know it's tripped because that's a mile out so the 70 yard time should be known. From the gate then to the 3/4 pole would be a known time for the entire first quarter plus the 70 yards -- from there I suspect they just subtract. Didn't Ragozin say in his book that his team found one or two of the tracks were just using some constant number of seconds? It wasn't even the actual time for the 70, it was like 4 seconds no matter what. I forgot the details and don't want to misquote. Granted leaving the gate in a route I imagine it's 4.2 seconds an awful lot of the time but using a constant (if that's what they're doing anywhere) is just wrong.

I don't think there is consistency track to track. I know Will Rogers Downs shows the first fraction at times, the first 70 yards. I couldn't figure out what the heck was going on when I saw it at first.

I think like you they are using subtraction. Just time the start until the 1m pole then record the fractions like usual and must subtract the start. The difference, of course, is that you are getting a true "first 1/4", first "1/2", etc. You are getting the a made up fraction, from the 1m pole to the 3/4 pole for the first 1/4, and so on.

It isn't that big an issue, but how many people actually realize this is going on? I'm guessing slim and none, and comparing fractions at these distances to races at 1m 1/16 or 1m would be fraught with problems.

[Valuist]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

To create mystery. Most of the time a mile & 70 is run because the track configuration doesn't lend itself to a mile or a mile & 1/16 races. it is pretty hard to run both a mile and mile & 1/16 at most 6f tracks and is virtually impossible at 4F bull rings.

A mile and a sixteenth is a mile and 110 yards. If a track shouldn't be running a mile and 110 yard races, they probably shouldn't run a mile and 70 yard races either. 40 yards doesn't mean much to horses running at top speed.

[RXB]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

To create mystery. Most of the time a mile & 70 is run because the track configuration doesn't lend itself to a mile or a mile & 1/16 races. it is pretty hard to run both a mile and mile & 1/16 at most 6f tracks and is virtually impossible at 4F bull rings.

If you're going to use a at somebody, especially one of the more reasonable people on the board, you might try making sure first that you're right. Do you not realize that 1-40/1-70 fall between a mile and 1 1/16?

They run 1-40/1-70 races at all sorts of mile tracks where they also run both 1m and 1 1/16. Just off of the top of my head: Parx, Aqueduct inner, Finger Lakes, Canterbury (both dirt and grass at Cby), Calder, Woodbine (2YO only), Mountaineer...

[jballscalls]

Originally Posted by cj

They definitely do not have those 70 yards before each of the poles.

CJ,

we run mile and 70 races and do have 4 poles that are 70 yards before each quarter pole.

One of them is 40 yards past the 6.5 pole, one is 40 yards past 4.5 pole and one is 40 yards past 2.5 pole. and then of course the actual 70 yard from the wire one, which not only acts as a starting beam but also acts as the one mile fraction timer (its usually a shade over 4 seconds from 70 yard marker to finish line).

If I remember I'll take some pictures of the beams tomorrow before the races.

[RXB]

Originally Posted by RXB

I
They run 1-40/1-70 races at all sorts of mile tracks where they also run both 1m and 1 1/16. Just off of the top of my head: Parx, Aqueduct inner, Finger Lakes, Canterbury (both dirt and grass at Cby), Calder, Woodbine (2YO only), Mountaineer...

Wait, not Woodbine-- temporary brain freeze. They run 1 1/16 but not a mile, same as Hawthorne and Louisiana Downs. But Suffolk, Remington, Prairie Meadows, Sunland are others that come to mind that do the 1m-1/70-1 1/16 trio, too. If I checked through Equibase I might find even more. So track configuration is not usually the issue. The only place that I can think of where they run 1m-70y but not 1 1/16 due to configuration is on the grass course at Mountaineer.