Message from the Commissioner

[totemastergeneral]

When Mike Repole says "are we willing to work together" what he means is "will you do what I want?"

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by totemastergeneral

When Mike Repole says "are we willing to work together" what he means is "will you do what I want?"

[Jeff P]

Originally Posted by racenomics

All the tracks not owned by the big 3 could join together, bargain for better rates. Come opening day at the Keenland spring meet, do the ADWs have a choice but to cave?

We've been down that road before.

Just a semi-educated guess on my part... but if smaller handle tracks like Assiniboia, Canterbury, Century Mile, Delta, FanDuel, Fonner, Mahoning, Mountaineer, Penn National, Parx, Sunland, Will Rogers, etc. banded together and did an ADW black-out similar to when T.H.G. (essentially Beulah) did in 2008 when they joined the T.O.C (Thoroughbred Owners of California) in a nationwide ADW blackout:

I suspect the end result would be similar.

Damage to track coffers, purse accounts, small trainers/owners, riders, and plenty of player badwill for months on end until an agreement is reached - with little change afterwards.

I say that last part (little change afterwards) because smaller handle tracks have small handle for a reason:

Their track signals aren't that desirable to the general public.

And just like big handle tracks, 85% or more of their handle is generated by horsesplayers betting via ADW.

And for smaller handle tracks a good chunk (30% to 40%) of that 85% is rebated handle.

Which would shrink in proportion to any signal fee increase the small handle tracks were able to negotiate.

That said, the big handle tracks are either owned by a parent company that also owns their own ADW or is paying a fee to a big handle track parent company to operate a white label big handle track ADW. (Keeneland and Oaklwawn being two examples of that.)

NOW --

If if smaller handle tracks like Assiniboia, Canterbury, Century Mile, Delta, FanDuel, Fonner, Mahoning, Mountaineer, etc. banded together, created a revenue sharing agreement, and their own ADW:

They could bypass the big track parent companies, distribute their track signals directly to the public, and retain a significantly higher percentage of handle than they currently do.

They'd also have to bear the costs (initial investment and ongoing maintenance, etc.)

I don't know if it would be cost effective.

BUT --

Speaking strictly for myself I'd be more than happy to support the Assiniboia's, Canterbury's, Century Mile's, Delta's, FanDuel's, Fonner's, Mahoning's, Mountaineer's of the world by betting their track signals through their ADW if they had one.

Just throwing it out there,


-jp
.

[racenomics]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

We've been down that road before.

Just a semi-educated guess on my part... but if smaller handle tracks like Assiniboia, Canterbury, Century Mile, Delta, FanDuel, Fonner, Mahoning, Mountaineer, Penn National, Parx, Sunland, Will Rogers, etc. banded together and did an ADW black-out similar to when T.H.G. (essentially Beulah) did in 2008 when they joined the T.O.C (Thoroughbred Owners of California) in a nationwide ADW blackout:

I suspect the end result would be similar.

Damage to track coffers, purse accounts, small trainers/owners, riders, and plenty of player badwill for months on end until an agreement is reached - with little change afterwards.

I say that last part (little change afterwards) because smaller handle tracks have small handle for a reason:

Their track signals aren't that desirable to the general public.

And just like big handle tracks, 85% or more of their handle is generated by horsesplayers betting via ADW.

And for smaller handle tracks a good chunk (30% to 40%) of that 85% is rebated handle.

Which would shrink in proportion to any signal fee increase the small handle tracks were able to negotiate.

That said, the big handle tracks are either owned by a parent company that also owns their own ADW or is paying a fee to a big handle track parent company to operate a white label big handle track ADW. (Keeneland and Oaklwawn being two examples of that.)

NOW --

If if smaller handle tracks like Assiniboia, Canterbury, Century Mile, Delta, FanDuel, Fonner, Mahoning, Mountaineer, etc. banded together, created a revenue sharing agreement, and their own ADW:

They could bypass the big track parent companies, distribute their track signals directly to the public, and retain a significantly higher percentage of handle than they currently do.

They'd also have to bear the costs (initial investment and ongoing maintenance, etc.)

I don't know if it would be cost effective.

BUT --

Speaking strictly for myself I'd be more than happy to support the Assiniboia's, Canterbury's, Century Mile's, Delta's, FanDuel's, Fonner's, Mahoning's, Mountaineer's of the world by betting their track signals through their ADW if they had one.

Just throwing it out there,


-jp
.

Creating an ADW makes a ton of sense. Add Del Mar and Tampa Bay + others to those you mentioned and with the ADW the big 4 would get crushed.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by racenomics

Creating an ADW makes a ton of sense. Add Del Mar and Tampa Bay + others to those you mentioned and with the ADW the big 4 would get crushed.

How the hell are you adding Del Mar to that list!?

\
fook
fk

Twitter

That huge leap of faith aside,
I don't have any understanding of the status quo, to begin with.

Other than general idea of strength-in-numbers and concentration of power, I don't have a good insight into a specific outcome of a group of weak tracks banding together.

This is one of those things where it 'sounds possibly good' to me, but I'm not quaified to have a serious opinion.

One apprehension that I have, even in the general sense is in regards to potential legal, gray, and illegal responses the existing competitors would have; to these mergers and new, competitive business models.

/wtf pa & twitter (pic.twitter bullocks

Twitter

__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.

---

Last edited by Robert Fischer; 12-16-2023 at 10:37 AM. Reason: what the hell is wrong with PA's loading of Twitter links now?

[racenomics]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

How the hell are you adding Del Mar to that list!?

\
fook
fk


https://twitter.com/jason_kassa/stat...43502612460017


That huge leap of faith aside,
I don't have any understanding of the status quo, to begin with.

Other than general idea of strength-in-numbers and concentration of power, I don't have a good insight into a specific outcome of a group of weak tracks banding together.

This is one of those things where it 'sounds possibly good' to me, but I'm not quaified to have a serious opinion.

One apprehension that I have, even in the general sense is in regards to potential legal, gray, and illegal responses the existing competitors would have; to these mergers and new, competitive business models.

/wtf pa & twitter (pic.twitter bullocks
https://twitter.com/jason_kassa/stat...46508770840722

They are an independent racetrack so I put them in

[classhandicapper]

NOW --

If if smaller handle tracks like Assiniboia, Canterbury, Century Mile, Delta, FanDuel, Fonner, Mahoning, Mountaineer, etc. banded together, created a revenue sharing agreement, and their own ADW:

They could bypass the big track parent companies, distribute their track signals directly to the public, and retain a significantly higher percentage of handle than they currently do.

That's what I was suggesting in the other thread.

I don't know how much it costs to get all the licenses and to develop the software. It's probably outside the range of smaller tracks. But ideally, if a track (or group) has it's own ADW and keeps a higher percentage of handle, it gives them the opportunity to incentivize betting their own track via their own ADW even more, stealing back a lot of market share, retaining more cash, and having more control over rebates.

IMO, we don't need independent ADWs taking money out of the game.

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[racenomics]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

That's what I was suggesting in the other thread.

I don't know how much it costs to get all the licenses and to develop the software. It's probably outside the range of smaller tracks. But ideally, if a track (or group) has it's own ADW and keeps a higher percentage of handle, it gives them the opportunity to incentivize betting their own track via their own ADW even more, stealing back a lot of market share, retaining more cash, and having more control over rebates.

IMO, we don't need independent ADWs taking money out of the game.

Exactly

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[Andy Asaro]

Twitter

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

https://twitter.com/HR_Nation/status...81436239012194

Interesting that Owner Repole has chosen to mount his first visible battle on this point; so no backing down now for his own reform credibility going forward which is cause for hope.

Isn't the first call to action to vacate the current NYRA steward stand and start fresh with a focus on the rule book? Everything from gate breaks, to herding, straight lanes, and more should be in scope.

While we can appreciate having the Repole voice sounding the charge, where was this same passion when Forte managed to "get out" and "survive" the Jim Dandy?

When we make the list of the worst NYRA steward decisions from 2023, do we even have to fight over the top three (in no particular order)?

[1] NYSS Decision, December 16th
[2] Jim Dandy Decision, July 29th
[3] Pick-5 Off-the-Turf Handling at Saratoga

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Interesting that Owner Repole has chosen to mount his first visible battle on this point; so no backing down now for his own reform credibility going forward which is cause for hope.

Isn't the first call to action to vacate the current NYRA steward stand and start fresh with a focus on the rule book? Everything from gate breaks, to herding, straight lanes, and more should be in scope.

While we can appreciate having the Repole voice sounding the charge, where was this same passion when Forte managed to "get out" and "survive" the Jim Dandy?

When we make the list of the worst NYRA steward decisions from 2023, do we even have to fight over the top three (in no particular order)?

[1] NYSS Decision, December 16th
[2] Jim Dandy Decision, July 29th
[3] Pick-5 Off-the-Turf Handling at Saratoga

They also stabbed Keri Brion in the back at Saratoga on a decision, probably in the mix also

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

They also stabbed Keri Brion in the back at Saratoga on a decision, probably in the mix also

https://www.equibase.com/premium/cha...3&cy=USA&rn=10

the chartcaller wrote a short story in the comments

Race starts at 4:59

YouTube

an example of how the NYRA stewards don't do anything when a dangerous situation is created, let alone a foul

and of course they suspend Kendrick for the other day
and Gary Stevens and Paulie both call for a DQ/action

no change

Paulie cashed and said "I don't know what to say any more, a foul is a foul"

all the announcers called for a DQ, G Stevens had it right, now he's gone too

[rastajenk]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

the chartcaller wrote a short story in the comments

Wow... I remember when we got things like "bid, hung" and "improved position".

"large chunks of sod"