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11-24-2019, 03:36 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 510
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Late changing odds
Really looks bad. I know it happens ALL the time, but when your on a winner that was 5 / 1 at the start and drops to 2/1 at the finish. Justdoesnt look good.
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11-24-2019, 05:13 PM
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#2
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Handicapper
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 574
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The elephant in the room.
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11-24-2019, 07:22 PM
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#3
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$2 Showbettor
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Villages
Posts: 2,584
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No other business would be allowed to get away with this. If I bought a can of corn at a grocery store that was $1 when picked off the shelf, but rose to $3 by the time I got it to cashier,
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11-24-2019, 08:05 PM
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#4
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,318
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ALL simulcast wagers go FROM the source track to encoders. Then they go electronically to one of 5 major North American HUBS to then be transferred to the receiving track, where they must be decoded before being added to the pool at the destination.
Like it or not that is the price of simulcasting, and just like the ticker tape of old, as of TODAY, it cannot be any faster than that. Add to the fact that over 60% of the wagers come in the final minute, and you get these delays.
Cut off wagering a minute to post and these would go away.
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-24-2019, 08:06 PM
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#5
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velocitician
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 26,318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redboard
No other business would be allowed to get away with this. If I bought a can of corn at a grocery store that was $1 when picked off the shelf, but rose to $3 by the time I got it to cashier,
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The collusion of gas station prices all going up EXACTLY the same right at holiday weekends is an equivalent situation.
__________________
"If this world is all about winners, what's for the losers?" Jr. Bonner: "Well somebody's got to hold the horses Ace."
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11-24-2019, 08:41 PM
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#6
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal
ALL simulcast wagers go FROM the source track to encoders. Then they go electronically to one of 5 major North American HUBS to then be transferred to the receiving track, where they must be decoded before being added to the pool at the destination.
Like it or not that is the price of simulcasting, and just like the ticker tape of old, as of TODAY, it cannot be any faster than that. Add to the fact that over 60% of the wagers come in the final minute, and you get these delays.
Cut off wagering a minute to post and these would go away.
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Completely right.
Although I doubt that one minute would be enough. Perhaps 2.5 minutes to make sure all bets are in.
Still, point is right.
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11-24-2019, 08:52 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,602
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I don't know how these guys place their wagers at the last seconds of the betting period. When I try to place a late wager using the Twinspires video feed...I am told that the race is off even though there are three horses yet to be loaded into the starting gate.
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11-24-2019, 09:11 PM
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#8
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 16,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
I don't know how these guys place their wagers at the last seconds of the betting period. When I try to place a late wager using the Twinspires video feed...I am told that the race is off even though there are three horses yet to be loaded into the starting gate.
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That's because the feed is about 10-25 seconds behind. Maybe more.
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11-24-2019, 09:18 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
I don't know how these guys place their wagers at the last seconds of the betting period. When I try to place a late wager using the Twinspires video feed...I am told that the race is off even though there are three horses yet to be loaded into the starting gate.
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Something tells me they have a direct CRW tie in to the tote. A single command from an algorithm submits a 'package' of (what they see as) optimal ticket structure for each pool given the situation per their numbers.
I'm also guessing none of them are using Twinspires (or Roberts) video.
They're teams. Think mini corporation.
It wouldn't surprise me if some of them have on track agents using an app on an IPhone to stream video of certain horses warming up along with the gate load, etc. They'd know if their contenders are looking and acting the part or if one of them (or the race favorite who they are betting against) is acting up at the gate.
That would enable their algorithms to be updated in real time for last minute info --
These are things I'd do if I were betting the kind of money they are.
-jp
__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
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11-24-2019, 09:23 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P
Something tells me they have a direct CRW tie in to the tote.
-jp
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Is this an operating option available to the rest of us?
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11-24-2019, 09:26 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal
The collusion of gas station prices all going up EXACTLY the same right at holiday weekends is an equivalent situation.
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The difference being that the elevated gas price is known to us BEFORE we are asked to buy it. This situation is as if the price is doubled AFTER we pump the gas, as we are walking to the register to pay for it.
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11-24-2019, 09:29 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Is this an operating option available to the rest of us?
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Yes and no.
Getting access to CRW normally means meeting a significant min handle threshold.
The rest of us have access to Text File Upload.
Not as fast as CRW but --
A single mouse click can generate a text file full of 1.00 exactas, 0.50 trifectas, and 0.10 supers. That same mouse click can also upload the file to a server and receive a confirmation code back from the bet taker.
It can be algorithm driven if you're willing to do the programming.
It's decent enough.
Think of Text File Upload as the poor man's CRW.
-jp
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__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com
Last edited by Jeff P; 11-24-2019 at 09:35 PM.
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11-24-2019, 10:24 PM
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#13
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$2 Showbettor
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Villages
Posts: 2,584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46zilzal
Like it or not that is the price of simulcasting,...
Cut off wagering a minute to post and these would go away.
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Or the tracks could allow independent bookmakers to set up shop there and offer fixed odds, like they do in Europe. Could be limited to win bets and the color of the Queens hat. And limit it to bettors at the track, which would give people a reason to show up.
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11-24-2019, 11:04 PM
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#14
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 845
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You're still going to be frustrated with odds changes no matter when you cut off wagering. Whether it's at 1 minute prior, 5 minutes prior, etc. All it will do is get rid of the appearance of past posting. You'll still have massive odds changes to which you won't be able to react. It's just an artifact of parimutuel systems.
One option that might work:
1. Stop all wagering X minutes prior to post.
2. Allow all "small" bettors, where small is defined as someone who bets less than $Y/month, to cancel their wagers between cutoff time and the race starting.
This allows some relief to the little guy while also making sure money isn't sucked out of the pools.
I've been following gambling twitter pretty closely lately and it's clear the #1 issue for professional bettors is that bookmakers cut customers off the minute the book thinks the customer is sharp. We don't have that problem with parimutuel systems. There are pluses and minuses to each, but if I'm a professional bettor, I'd much rather bet into a PM pool than a sportsbook. Exchanges would be nice, but as others have noted, have their own issues with rate increases for high volume wagers, and aren't suitable for exotics.
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11-25-2019, 12:19 AM
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#15
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P
Yes and no.
Getting access to CRW normally means meeting a significant min handle threshold.
The rest of us have access to Text File Upload.
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There's very little difference between producing a batch betting file for upload , and what the computer boys do.
Trivial really. Unless you think they have some kind of special access to data you can't get. Do you ?
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