NYRA Cuts Winner's Share Of Purse

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Tom

Write races that exclude trainers with X number of horses in their care.
Panza can write can't he?
Isn't getting ALL the horses on the grounds into races his job?

This idea was tried somewhere in the past year or so - maybe it was in harness racing. I don't know how it worked out. I'm sure someone knows.

[AskinHaskin]

Originally Posted by onefast99

You also don't "collect" the purse you win it,

You have no understanding as to what you're talking about.




According to Webster's:

Definition of collect:



4 : to claim as due and receive payment for
5 : to get and bring with one; specifically : pick up went to collect her at the train station



Racing tradition dates back to a time when the purse/winnings were indeed there at the finish to be 'collected' by the first on the scene.


Whether it is 1700 or 2018, "collect" is correct.


In modern times, by running 4th you are due (some relative pittance) and you indeed collect this from the Horseman's Bookkeeper. Few would boast of having won anything.


On the other side of the course, you spent $576 on a pick-6 and you are due $684. You went to the window to collect $684. You did not realistically win $684. (even the IRS finally admits as much - you should be next)

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

Totally disagree - you want their money in the pool. I guarantee you are a radically better handicapper than 99.5% of the "insiders."

Yes, but those insiders also have the power to influence the outcomes of races.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

It makes sense when you consider that owners and trainers often try to cash BETS, as well as collect purses.

Maybe at the smaller tracks that have low purses, but we're talking about the NYRA circuit. Of course, I'm not a cynic or conspiracy theory type of person in the first place, but it's extremely rare to see a horse held in New York. The jockeys riding on the NYRA circuit aren't going to hold a horse so some jerk off owner can set up a bet.

And I know from interviewing successful harness drivers, they don't listen to the trainers...well, not that they don't listen, but they don't follow instructions. You ask any of them if they do what the trainer tells them and they shake their head and say, "Of course not."

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by pandy

Maybe at the smaller tracks that have low purses, but we're talking about the NYRA circuit. Of course, I'm not a cynic or conspiracy theory type of person in the first place, but it's extremely rare to see a horse held in New York. The jockeys riding on the NYRA circuit aren't going to hold a horse so some jerk off owner can set up a bet.

And I know from interviewing successful harness drivers, they don't listen to the trainers...well, not that they don't listen, but they don't follow instructions. You ask any of them if they do what the trainer tells them and they shake their head and say, "Of course not."

what trainer in his right mind would rely on a jockey to hold his horse for him when he can do it himself easy as hell without leaving the barn?

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

Tom has this 100% correct. paying more for running 4th and 5th ain't gonna bring new blood to the game. at this point, i don't think there is to much that will bring new faces in, so this is just a life line because NYRA is going to have plenty of trouble getting big fields this year. Monmouth pays a trainer $300 just to enter a horse. Navaro runs about 15 horses a week at Monmouth, plus he wins most of his races.

Tom is 100% wrong. No one enters a MSW or allow to get a $3k payday. The wins are what an owner needs to stay afloat in this sport. It is always better for the bottom line to run where you can win because the win money is too significant. What this does is help pay for the training of that particular horse that month.

All horses in the race play a part in that particular betting show, so I’ve always thought they should get some small pay for the role they play.

[Tom]

No, you are wrong.
I said jockeys, trainers, and stewards.
Any of them can affect the outcome of a race.
Not saying they do, but it is still a conflict of interest.

The integrity of the game depends on more than "oh, no one would do that."
As long as someone CAN do it, you need to regulate the game to prevent it.
Ever hear of a buzzer?
How many drug violations are there?
Is Dutrow on 10 ears suspension because he would ever do that?

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Tom is 100% wrong. No one enters a MSW or allow to get a $3k payday. The wins are what an owner needs to stay afloat in this sport. It is always better for the bottom line to run where you can win because the win money is too significant. What this does is help pay for the training of that particular horse that month.

All horses in the race play a part in that particular betting show, so I’ve always thought they should get some small pay for the role they play.

again Tom is right. there are hobo's that mistreat their horses and just run them in spots where they collect an appearance fee,

[Milkshaker]

Originally Posted by Tom

That is the fatal flaw of the game.
No trainer, owner, rider or steward should ever be allowed to bet on ANY horses anywhere.

You cannot be a part of the game and play it as well.
It is a major conflict of interest.

You don't think this entire industry/sport isn't already rife with conflicts of interest?

Betting by jocks/trainers/owners would seem pretty far down the list of conflict of interest concerns (at least it is on my list).

[Tom]

Such as?

[davew]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

This % shift is a response to the concentration of wins among very few barns.


The rest starve . Now they can eat gruel.

when 4th gets less than 10% of win and 5th gets less than 5% of win, there is no incentive to enter unless you can win.

beginning owners and trainers have a difficult time getting established before going broke.

[BIG49010]

The old Sportsman's Park in Chicago, used to have races, non winners of a race at meeting, with 10 or more starts. Grey horse only conditions. It's too bad they listened to car racing promoters and ruined that track!

[classhandicapper]

I like the new purse distribution.

It's tough to win races in NY. If you aren't wining it's tough to pay the bills unless you have a very good horse. Paying more money further down is a way redistributing the wealth a little so more horses can cover the costs of their training, vet care, and other expenses. If you have a very good horse that's winning, you'll still do very well with the generous purses in NY.

[onefast99]

Anyone should be able to bet unless you are an employee of that track the horse is racing at. jocks and trainers and agents are not employees of tracks. A steward has the ability to change the outcome of a race, they must be barred from wagering at the track they are employed at.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

You have no understanding as to what you're talking about.




According to Webster's:

Definition of collect:



4 : to claim as due and receive payment for
5 : to get and bring with one; specifically : pick up went to collect her at the train station



Racing tradition dates back to a time when the purse/winnings were indeed there at the finish to be 'collected' by the first on the scene.


Whether it is 1700 or 2018, "collect" is correct.


In modern times, by running 4th you are due (some relative pittance) and you indeed collect this from the Horseman's Bookkeeper. Few would boast of having won anything.


On the other side of the course, you spent $576 on a pick-6 and you are due $684. You went to the window to collect $684. You did not realistically win $684. (even the IRS finally admits as much - you should be next)

Wrong
The trainer jockey and owner earned their share of the purse it’s called income and yes despite your confusion here the IRS is still interested in your earnings so much so that once a year prior to April 15th you must file a tax return. Unless you are speaking about a different country your facts are not correct but great post anyway.