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11-19-2018, 07:26 PM
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#76
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 18,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
..... That's why I shake my head whenever I see a thread such as this...where a poster asks for an opinion on a public handicapper, or a commercially-available handicapping method. Winning gambling methods are indeed created...but they aren't likely to be found for sale, IMO. The individual player will have to do the heavy lifting himself.
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There can certainly be a positive argument made that’s related to using 3rd party sources for getting good information and acting on it in a variety of fields.
Two immediately come to mind: Sports Betting in general and the Stock Market. Although they’re significantly different in many respects both offer risk opportunities to make money. They also include those who claim proficiency in their fields like the Sports Pro Handicapper and professional Financial Advisers.
These people offer advice (for compensation) to those who don’t have the time or expertise to make educated appraisals of things they themselves want to be involved in. Of course similar to other disciplines you’ll find the good, the bad, and the ugly which are commonly weeded out through the referral process.
So why would a sincere interest in playing the horse racing game preclude anyone from using the same sort of resources?
Last edited by Nitro; 11-19-2018 at 07:28 PM.
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11-19-2018, 08:43 PM
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#77
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro
There can certainly be a positive argument made that’s related to using 3rd party sources for getting good information and acting on it in a variety of fields.
Two immediately come to mind: Sports Betting in general and the Stock Market. Although they’re significantly different in many respects both offer risk opportunities to make money. They also include those who claim proficiency in their fields like the Sports Pro Handicapper and professional Financial Advisers.
These people offer advice (for compensation) to those who don’t have the time or expertise to make educated appraisals of things they themselves want to be involved in. Of course similar to other disciplines you’ll find the good, the bad, and the ugly which are commonly weeded out through the referral process.
So why would a sincere interest in playing the horse racing game preclude anyone from using the same sort of resources?
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I think the answer to your question is rather obvious. When a sports bettor or a stock market investor releases his selections to the general public, then there is no negative side effect that can befall him as a result...assuming that he has invested his own money beforehand. But the resulting piggybacking would be very detrimental to the horseplayer, who has to abide by the perimutuel wagering system that the game employs.
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11-19-2018, 09:45 PM
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 18,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
I think the answer to your question is rather obvious. When a sports bettor or a stock market investor releases his selections to the general public, then there is no negative side effect that can befall him as a result...assuming that he has invested his own money beforehand. But the resulting piggybacking would be very detrimental to the horseplayer, who has to abide by the perimutuel wagering system that the game employs.
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I follow your logic and it makes perfect sense, but I was referring to those who might purchase professional 3rd party information privately. I didn't mean to infer that the information was made available to the general public.
I have no problem with someone like CheckMark seeking professional advice be it about handicapping in general or preferred selections. If he's truly interested in this game he'll soon gain an appreciation for the best and most current information in order to reach whatever monetary goals he might have.
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11-19-2018, 10:05 PM
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#79
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro
I follow your logic and it makes perfect sense, but I was referring to those who might purchase professional 3rd party information privately. I didn't mean to infer that the information was made available to the general public.
I have no problem with someone like CheckMark seeking professional advice be it about handicapping in general or preferred selections. If he's truly interested in this game he'll soon gain an appreciation for the best and most current information in order to reach whatever monetary goals he might have.
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I have no problem with CheckMark either...except for the fact that he reminds me of me when I was about 18 years old. I believed in what the handicapping books and the mail-order systems of that era peddled...and I naively wasted an inordinate amount of time (and money) searching for something that doesn't really exist. And, wasting time is a lamentable endeavor...which we regrettably realize only when we get old.
I pray that CheckMark finds a suitable mentor...who can help him traverse the horseracing minefield, while sparing him the misfortunes that I myself have had to endure.
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11-20-2018, 12:11 AM
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 18,945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
I have no problem with CheckMark either...except for the fact that he reminds me of me when I was about 18 years old. I believed in what the handicapping books and the mail-order systems of that era peddled...and I naively wasted an inordinate amount of time (and money) searching for something that doesn't really exist. And, wasting time is a lamentable endeavor...which we regrettably realize only when we get old.
I pray that CheckMark finds a suitable mentor...who can help him traverse the horseracing minefield, while sparing him the misfortunes that I myself have had to endure.
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Yeah the good old days! I think we all experienced similar situations with those peddling information about this game. Their motto was “There’s an 18 year old born every day”.
I think the one book that influenced me early on was an English translation of a Frenchman’s story that they nicknamed Masseur X. I can’t remember the title of that book for life of me, but the entire story was about how this player developed a betting strategy for betting just the Triple. He apparently became so successful using it that he was eventually banned from all of the tracks in France. So what did he do then? Of course the same thing the Card Counters did later on in Vegas: Hire agents to make his plays.
What intrigued me was how this guy would profile all of the entries in a race, and then compare them to one another in order to determine which among them had the best chance of finishing in the money. He would then box half the field and play every permutation multiple times. He apparently gained notoriety because they only offered the Triple bet in a certain race on the card and his betting apparently had such a dramatic impact on the payouts. Rumor had it that he was finally discovered when cashing a huge score on his own.
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11-20-2018, 12:21 AM
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#81
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro
Yeah the good old days! I think we all experienced similar situations with those peddling information about this game. Their motto was “There’s an 18 year old born every day”.
I think the one book that influenced me early on was an English translation of a Frenchman’s story that they nicknamed Masseur X. I can’t remember the title of that book for life of me, but the entire story was about how this player developed a betting strategy for betting just the Triple. He apparently became so successful using it that he was eventually banned from all of the tracks in France. So what did he do then? Of course the same thing the Card Counters did later on in Vegas: Hire agents to make his plays.
What intrigued me was how this guy would profile all of the entries in a race, and then compare them to one another in order to determine which among them had the best chance of finishing in the money. He would then box half the field and play every permutation multiple times. He apparently gained notoriety because they only offered the Triple bet in a certain race on the card and his betting apparently had such a dramatic impact on the payouts. Rumor had it that he was finally discovered when cashing a huge score on his own.
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Andy Beyer wrote about such a bettor in one of his books. The guy would isolate a couple of key horses in the trifectas...whom he would then wheel and backwheel with the rest of the field. "My friends tell me that what I do isn't real handicapping...but THEY are the ones who have to work for a living"...the guy was quoted as saying.
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11-20-2018, 12:29 AM
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#82
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Andy Beyer wrote about such a bettor in one of his books. The guy would isolate a couple of key horses in the trifectas...whom he would then wheel and backwheel with the rest of the field. "My friends tell me that what I do isn't real handicapping...but THEY are the ones who have to work for a living"...the guy was quoted as saying.
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Yeah, those Beyer BS stories are great, eh?...The guy secretly had hit the lotto, bet $50M through the windows and ended up on skid-row....I forget, did Andy tell that part of the story in the book too, or did that come out later, like all truth eventually does?...
Last edited by ReplayRandall; 11-20-2018 at 12:31 AM.
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11-20-2018, 12:31 AM
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#83
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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You see, Nitro...we COULD have a civil conversation about horses, if we both try.
Happy Thanksgiving week to you and yours.
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11-20-2018, 12:32 AM
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#84
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
Yeah, those Beyer BS stories are great, eh?...The guy secretly had hit the lotto, bet $50M through the windows and ended up on skid-row....I forget, did Andy tell that part of the story in the book too, or did that come out later, like all truth eventually does?...
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Randall...I have a question for you: How did you manage to get all those green rep medals?
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11-20-2018, 12:37 AM
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#85
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Randall...I have a question for you: How did you manage to get all those green rep medals?
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Same way you got yours, I begged..... plus a lot of posters really liked "Q"....
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11-20-2018, 12:38 AM
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#86
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReplayRandall
Same way you got yours, I begged.....plus a lot of posters really liked "Q"....
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Yes...how could I have forgotten that?
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