what do you think of clocker reports. the clocker services in general as a tool or a

[trytrytry]

what do you think of clocker reports. the paid tout like clocker services in general as a tool or a scam or just more glitsy packaged info that really is worthless in the end?

[green80]

Originally Posted by trytrytry

what do you think of clocker reports. the paid tout like clocker services in general as a tool or a scam or just more glitsy packaged info that really is worthless in the end?

you summed it up perfectly "just more glitsy packaged info that really is worthless in the end"

Anyone that has been around track workouts in the am would know just how much of a cluster these really are.

[EasyGoer89]

it helps but you have to know how to use it and how to integrate it into your handicapping. If you're looking to be spoon fed the winners, you'll be disappointed.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

My anecdotal experience has been that every trainer has a pattern and if you recognize the pattern, you can tell when something is not exactly right. I've stood next to trainers when they gave instructions to the jockey. "Jog him once around, break off at the half-mile pole and give me a :49." Just gallop him a two-minus lick." When you see :49 in the Racing Form, all that may mean is that is how fast the trainer ordered the rider to work the horse.

I know some trainers who like to put a sharp speed workout into a horse early in a pattern, and then a series of sub-:50 four furlong works leading up to a race. Baffert seems to work his horses very fast.

I look for patterns without long breaks, and something typical for the trainer. Learn to recognize patterns and you're well ahead of a lot of handicappers. The only thing I have found useful from professional observers is comments on the horse's interest, action, and liking for the track surface - things you can't get from the workout number - but 90% of the time the horse won't look special in a workout.

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

My anecdotal experience has been that every trainer has a pattern and if you recognize the pattern, you can tell when something is not exactly right. I've stood next to trainers when they gave instructions to the jockey. "Jog him once around, break off at the half-mile pole and give me a :49." Just gallop him a two-minus lick." When you see :49 in the Racing Form, all that may mean is that is how fast the trainer ordered the rider to work the horse.

I know some trainers who like to put a sharp speed workout into a horse early in a pattern, and then a series of sub-:50 four furlong works leading up to a race. Baffert seems to work his horses very fast.

I look for patterns without long breaks, and something typical for the trainer. Learn to recognize patterns and you're well ahead of a lot of handicappers. The only thing I have found useful from professional observers is comments on the horse's interest, action, and liking for the track surface - things you can't get from the workout number - but 90% of the time the horse won't look special in a workout.

I agree. Know your track, and know your trainer.

Baffert with first time starters almost always is in a 7 day work pattern, has a 6 f workout in 1:13 to 1:14 and then follows with a fast 5 f workout.

Karl Broberg works his horses slow, anything at 4 f under :52 is fast for him.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by trytrytry

what do you think of clocker reports. the paid tout like clocker services in general as a tool or a scam or just more glitsy packaged info that really is worthless in the end?

If you ever get an opportunity, try and watch the early morning workouts live a few times. It's organized chaos, IMO. You won't know any of the horses but you can still learn a few things, like where most horses make their moves etc.

And, if you can, grab a big cup of hot coffee and a couple of donuts and sit near a group of regulars in the stands and just listen. And, bring binocs if you can.

Have never used a clocker report but in SoCal there was one which was very highly thought of, I think it was Bruno something unsure if he still offers it since my recollection was from the '90's and early 2000's.

[Dan Montilion]

I use them for the negative works.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by whodoyoulike

If you ever get an opportunity, try and watch the early morning workouts live a few times. It's organized chaos, IMO. You won't know any of the horses but you can still learn a few things, like where most horses make their moves etc.

And, if you can, grab a big cup of hot coffee and a couple of donuts and sit near a group of regulars in the stands and just listen. And, bring binocs if you can.

Have never used a clocker report but in SoCal there was one which was very highly thought of, I think it was Bruno something unsure if he still offers it since my recollection was from the '90's and early 2000's.

Bruno de Julio, greatest workout watcher in the world, and if you don't believe me just ask him. You might think there are so know-it-alls here, but they are pikers compared to Bruno. And skin as thin as rice paper.

I agree about the chaos. At most you can tell which stable the horse belongs to, but not much more. There are often private clockers in the stands. Maybe you could ask them how they figure out who is who.

[no breathalyzer]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

Bruno de Julio, greatest workout watcher in the world, and if you don't believe me just ask him. You might think there are so know-it-alls here, but they are pikers compared to Bruno. And skin as thin as rice paper.

I agree about the chaos. At most you can tell which stable the horse belongs to, but not much more. There are often private clockers in the stands. Maybe you could ask them how they figure out who is who.

I agree guy is a hack

[EasyGoer89]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

Bruno de Julio, greatest workout watcher in the world, and if you don't believe me just ask him. You might think there are so know-it-alls here, but they are pikers compared to Bruno. And skin as thin as rice paper.

I agree about the chaos. At most you can tell which stable the horse belongs to, but not much more. There are often private clockers in the stands. Maybe you could ask them how they figure out who is who.

He's the greatest workout watcher?

[glengarry]

Originally Posted by trytrytry

what do you think of clocker reports. the paid tout like clocker services in general as a tool or a scam or just more glitsy packaged info that really is worthless in the end?

They were good for a few years in California until the guys on TVG started using them. Then they went south. Like anything else, once it's out in the public, it becomes less valuable. Some trainers hate having clockers, other than those who work for the form (who just give a distance and raw time) giving their horse a rating. They want no transparency in the game. I wouldn't trust these guys to show what their horse has in the morning if it were to affect the price they get in the afternoon.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by EasyGoer89

He's the greatest workout watcher?

It doesn't always come through on line but if you read that closely, it's pretty clearly sarcasm.

[098poi]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

Bruno de Julio, greatest workout watcher in the world, and if you don't believe me just ask him. You might think there are so know-it-alls here, but they are pikers compared to Bruno. And skin as thin as rice paper.

I agree about the chaos. At most you can tell which stable the horse belongs to, but not much more. There are often private clockers in the stands. Maybe you could ask them how they figure out who is who.

That is funny. I think I'll trust your judgement.

[Bata]

Originally Posted by trytrytry

what do you think of clocker reports. the paid tout like clocker services in general as a tool or a scam or just more glitsy packaged info that really is worthless in the end?

Worthless

[EasyGoer89]

Originally Posted by Bata

Worthless

These reports are only worth something for certain types of handicappers who know how to use the reports as a specific type of supplement, you also have to 'know your analyst' which means if you use a service for a long time You'll get to know how to cherry pick what you want vs just taking it all at face value.

If you're just blindly using them with the idea that they'll spoon feed you the winner than yeah, they're useless.