Trips handicapping service...

[Tom]

Originally Posted by rsetup

MlThey roped you in with the Sartin BS and you've been paying through the nose ever since. It is what it is, Tommy

Must hard to keep posting like you know what is going on with everyone else when in fact, you are the most clueless troll ever. From board to board, you are well known as a loser who is all talky and no walky. Sorry you were never able to master that pesky multiplication that Sartin used. Not everyone is up to it, you know.

Pathetic little wanna be.

[Dan Montilion]

I had the pleasure of working with Ron Cox on the the Northern California Track Record. We covered Bay Meadows and Golden Gate Fields. Offered trip notes, bias notes, pace and final time figures. It was if I do say so my self. State of the art for the time. We mailed weekly, there was a comment on every horse that raced the previous week. Subscribers could file into a binder and thumb back. Frankly we were good at what we did. This was prior to state wide or nation wide simulcasting. At the height we had 60 subscribers at $360 per meet.

A few years ago I thought I would try doing the same product on the southern California circuit. I advertised on this site, Calracing.com as well as a few appearances on local radio in both northern and southern California. I offered the product, which was now sent via e-mail in a pdf. Free for a good 6 weeks. I had 37 handicappers during the free period. I had very positive feedback. We caught some very subtle bias's, provided some handicapping and wagering editorials. Once again I can say I had positive comments. When It came time to charge. And I was very cost effective, I had one person subscribe.

It is possible the product was not any good. However, I seriously doubt that.

[DeltaLover]

Originally Posted by teddy

Why doesnt one of you watch every video every day and sell a subscription service for wide runs, speed dueled, ect ect. Would take you a 3 hour aday at most and you could surely get 100 gamblers to pay $50 a month. If you are willing to do a job nobody wants to do then thats a great business opportunity. I think it would be fun for someone retired..or unemployed. Plus the positive impact on your wagering !

$50 X 100 = $5,000 / month

Given the relatively small size of the pools and the limited margin of EV that can be potentially offered, what would make anyone with the ability to discover an overlooked handicapping factor (as the trip – track bias information that is discussed here) to sell it for a few thousand dollars per month?

[PICSIX]

I'd pay extra for pp's that had a hyperlink attached to all races that I could select to instantly see the replays.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Dan Montilion

I had the pleasure of working with Ron Cox on the the Northern California Track Record. We covered Bay Meadows and Golden Gate Fields. Offered trip notes, bias notes, pace and final time figures. It was if I do say so my self. State of the art for the time. We mailed weekly, there was a comment on every horse that raced the previous week. Subscribers could file into a binder and thumb back. Frankly we were good at what we did. This was prior to state wide or nation wide simulcasting. At the height we had 60 subscribers at $360 per meet.

A few years ago I thought I would try doing the same product on the southern California circuit. I advertised on this site, Calracing.com as well as a few appearances on local radio in both northern and southern California. I offered the product, which was now sent via e-mail in a pdf. Free for a good 6 weeks. I had 37 handicappers during the free period. I had very positive feedback. We caught some very subtle bias's, provided some handicapping and wagering editorials. Once again I can say I had positive comments. When It came time to charge. And I was very cost effective, I had one person subscribe.

It is possible the product was not any good. However, I seriously doubt that.

This makes perfect sense to me, Dan...because, IMO, the frivolous horseplayers outnumber the serious ones by about a 36 to 1 ratio.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by PICSIX

I'd pay extra for pp's that had a hyperlink attached to all races that I could select to instantly see the replays.

Formulator

[teddy]

From what I have seen trip handicapping is the one thing nobody wants to do that's why it's obviously so effective. When taken with some handicapping basics. Or you could just do it by odds and let the public handicap your races for you. Which is probably as good as anything. These horses that I have been getting our 3 to 1 shots and less and from what I've seen it's pretty deadly.

[AltonKelsey]

Originally Posted by pandy

I could be wrong, but I think that the main reason why The Sheets and Thoroughgraph are still in business is because they have quite a few customers from the racing industry - trainers, owners, breeders. You can't sell any sort of high priced service to horseplayers. There aren't enough of them and they either can't afford it or don't want to pay a lot for handicapping information. I'm not even sure that DRF would still be publishing if it had to rely on horseplayers.

Is that the reason or is it because even with GOOD information it's so hard to beat the game for real money.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

Is that the reason or is it because even with GOOD information it's so hard to beat the game for real money.

I personally am realizing that 2 people can watch a replay and get 2 totally different versions of what happened.

I'm realizing that it takes talent to know what you're watching.

I used to think everyone saw, what I noticed and weighed it appropriately. Now I realize, just how different people see things.

I LOVE THAT.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The more often the horseplayer plays the game...the more sure he is to realize that he is going to have to pay for someone else's product or service somewhere down the line. There are too many facets to this game and, as the game gets more and more competitive...there is a constant call for improving our game in order to stay in step with our competition. We can't do at all ourselves...because the time constraints that we face are too much of an obstacle.

Where can I possibly find the time to become as proficient at replay-watching as EMD4ME or ReplayRandall? How can I possibly construct professional-level speed and pace figures for all the different tracks that I intend to play...not to mention compiling trustworthy track bias information for the same tracks? Why shouldn't I pay for these services...if they become available to me?

Of course...the infrequent bettor isn't forced to operate under such time constraints. But this player isn't likely to profit from this game either.

It can be done and has been done by players who realize they must reduce the number of tracks they can play each day.

Personally one East and One West is the maximum workload I can handle.

It's especially tough on people who crave massive amounts of action.

16 to 24 races a day. Anything more will dilute the quality of your work.

[EMD4ME]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

It can be done and has been done by players who realize they must reduce the number of tracks they can play each day.

Personally one East and One West is the maximum workload I can handle.

It's especially tough on people who crave massive amounts of action.

16 to 24 races a day. Anything more will dilute the quality of your work.

I 10000% CONCUR...

I get so tired when EMD and NYRA run at the same time.

I am almost relieved that EMD ended as I get to rest a bit.

Anything more than 1 EAST COAST AND 1 WEST COAST is way too much for me these days.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by citygoat

Is there one place I can get all the equipment changes for the day without going track to track?All the changes listed in one spot?

Any of the big ADW's.

1. Bet America

2. TVG

3. Express Bet

4. Twin Spires

They all get first dibs at changes from tracks because they're bet takers.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by teddy

From what I have seen trip handicapping is the one thing nobody wants to do that's why it's obviously so effective. When taken with some handicapping basics. Or you could just do it by odds and let the public handicap your races for you. Which is probably as good as anything. These horses that I have been getting our 3 to 1 shots and less and from what I've seen it's pretty deadly.

One of the challenges of trip handicapping is "quantifying" the observations, and even more so folding them into other data, making the service a difficult one to implement. I suppose there might be enough meat on the bone to be profitable from just trip 'capping, but I'd find it hard to believe 3-1 shots would get the job done.

Aren't some speed/performance figures already taking trip into account? I thought the Ragozin sheets did. FWIW, I think another lucrative area to explore from a service perspective would be the visual handicapping done in the paddock, post parade and warm ups. With texts and tweets, it'd be easier to do nowadays.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Dan Montilion

I had the pleasure of working with Ron Cox on the the Northern California Track Record. We covered Bay Meadows and Golden Gate Fields. Offered trip notes, bias notes, pace and final time figures. It was if I do say so my self. State of the art for the time. We mailed weekly, there was a comment on every horse that raced the previous week. Subscribers could file into a binder and thumb back. Frankly we were good at what we did. This was prior to state wide or nation wide simulcasting. At the height we had 60 subscribers at $360 per meet.

A few years ago I thought I would try doing the same product on the southern California circuit. I advertised on this site, Calracing.com as well as a few appearances on local radio in both northern and southern California. I offered the product, which was now sent via e-mail in a pdf. Free for a good 6 weeks. I had 37 handicappers during the free period. I had very positive feedback. We caught some very subtle bias's, provided some handicapping and wagering editorials. Once again I can say I had positive comments. When It came time to charge. And I was very cost effective, I had one person subscribe.

It is possible the product was not any good. However, I seriously doubt that.

Your product was VERY good.

Unfortunately Southern Cal already had several services doing equally good work that had cornered the market so to speak.

Coupled with the fact those services are being shared by many with only 1 paying customer you were up against unbeatable numbers.

Tough to find a circuit that has enough players that doesn't also have a glut of services.

I would think maybe Australia might be a market. Lot's of work but clearly the betting numbers there continue to rise. And the pools can certainly handle the increase in informed opinions.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

One of the challenges of trip handicapping is "quantifying" the observations, and even more so folding them into other data, making the service a difficult one to implement. I suppose there might be enough meat on the bone to be profitable from just trip 'capping, but I'd find it hard to believe 3-1 shots would get the job done.

Aren't some speed/performance figures already taking trip into account? I thought the Ragozin sheets did. FWIW, I think another lucrative area to explore from a service perspective would be the visual handicapping done in the paddock, post parade and warm ups. With texts and tweets, it'd be easier to do nowadays.

Both TG and RAG have spotters/ground men that point out trouble. However it's NEVER integrated into the final number. Both correctly believe it incumbent on each player to quantify the incidents for themselves and then self adjust as they see fit.