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Old 08-26-2010, 11:46 AM   #16
Foolish Pleasure
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Should rename this forum THE BETFAIR LIES.


People are a joke and a half re iterating 100% complete lies in a self serving effort to promote bullshit.


IT is embarrasing,

hard to tell who is worse here,

the oblivious tracks or the Betfair shills and their repeated lies.


Soon I will be reading Betfair actually invented gambling.


(which by the way is another Betfair lie-they did not invent exchange wagering like they perpetually tout- a company called Bet-EX was the first to actually offer exchange wagering but like rest why let the truth get in the way?)










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Old 08-26-2010, 12:00 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by andymays
Good job putting him on the spot.

His answer is bullshit. Now I have to believe that Betfair is bullshit too. It is quite obvious that he cut a deal with some of the Racing Executives in California along with Brackpool who is another suspicious character.

They won't get the benefit of the doubt from me from here on out.
Ditto.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:04 PM   #18
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Last I looked no other part of Betfair site will be legal in the US either if this bill is passed.


Which makes comparing the US to any other jurisdiction useless.


I guess the SOuth Africans and French both who explicitly banned internet gambling after Betfair's arrival must have missed that increased tote business.





South Africa bans online gambling
26/08/2010
Suzie Neuwirth


Online gambling is now prohibited in South Africa, following a ruling by the North Gauteng High Court last week.

The South African gambling regulator, the Gauteng Gambling Board, issued a media release this week stating its support of the legislation.

The High Court’s decision ruled that internet operators who offer online gambling, players who participate, and service providers or marketers who facilitate the industry are at risk of being prosecuted.

The statement said that persons found guilty of breaching the new gambling legislation could be “Liable for a fine not exceeding ZAR 10m (approx £880,000) or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding 10 years or to both such fine and imprisonment.”

The ruling also said that those who contravened the prohibition “may not be suitable to hold an online gambling licence when South Africa invites application for online gambling licence”.

EGRMagazine previously reported that Betfair was considering applying for a licence in South Africa prior to the ruling, and that Ladbrokes had submitted an application.

Most forms of gambling were restricted in South Africa until 1996, when the National Gambling Act introduced licensed casinos and a national lottery.

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Old 08-26-2010, 12:11 PM   #19
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Lunacy that the Betfair commissions are 5% or less-who believes in Santa Clause?

Does the tote charge more if one is a consistent winner?
Imagine if the tracks wrote rules this confusing to have figure out an expected payout after all the fees and commissions-

and guess what?


right the tracks and sports DO NOT GET A CUT OF THIS FEE-
kind of odd isn't it? Since they supposed to get a cut of the action.


This is lilly white Betfair how can they be charging fees to consistent winners only,
fees that one would need a degree in rocket science or brain surgery to understand and fees which they are obviously not splitting with the tracks.



This is the current definition of the Betfair Premium Charge,
a charge they unilaterally imposed on some arbitrary date with no considerations whatsoever for pending action that may be affected-exactly how someone who knows their customers would act in a gaming business-NOT-change the odds after the bet has already been struck by raising the takeout-it is horrendous.


Become a consistent winner of any sort of real money and pay the following:

http://betfair-en.custhelp.com/app/a...tail/a_id/3884
Quote:
Will my account be affected by the Premium Charge?
You will only be considered for the Premium Charge if, over the lifetime of your account, you satisfy all of the following criteria:

Your account is in profit;
Your total charges generated are less than 20% of gross profits; and
You bet in more than 250 markets.
Two further conditions reduce the likelihood that you will be required to pay the Premium Charge:

Any single win that constitutes more than 50% of your gross profits over the lifetime of your account will be excluded from the calculation; and
Each customer has a lifetime allowance of £1,000 of Premium Charges which can be incurred before any Premium Charge is paid.
Each week the customers who meet all the conditions set out above will be charged the lesser of:

The difference between 20% of the previous week’s gross profits and the total charges generated during the week; and
The difference between 20% of gross profits and the total charges generated during the lifetime of the account.
Please note that for the purposes of calculating the charge we will assume that the charge has been in place since Betfair launched in June 2000. This means that we will consider all customers to have generated charges equal to at least 20% of lifetime gross profits as of the 12th October 2009. However, this also means that for some customers, some or all of the £1,000 allowance against the charge will have been used prior to 12th October 2009 in order to offset hypothetical charges paid. The assumption that hypothetical charges, less allowance, were paid prior to the introduction of the Premium Charge will typically reduce the Premium Charge a customer would incur.


I will translate into english for the laggards,

this means everyone will pay at least 20% of every net dollar they earn on the exchange in commission.


by the way they tout that only 1/2 of 1% of their customers pay this fee,
should pretty much tell you how easy it is to win anything of real value on Betfair.

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Old 08-26-2010, 12:24 PM   #20
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this means everyone will pay at least 20% of every net dollar they earn on the exchange in commission.
And Tote model means you pay a higher % in most instances whether you win or lose. You also have other betting options (see Mr B Meadows post in another thread) on an exchange


Best value is where FP???

Last edited by Charlie D; 08-26-2010 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:30 PM   #21
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There is nothing FAIR about Betfair.

PT Barnum lives.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:32 PM   #22
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IT is obvious you are a fanatic like some of the others,
and by definition a fanatic is going to ignore all facts and continue promoting their fanaticism.




I am merely pointing out the actual truth for people who actually care about the truth.



Just imagine if the tracks had a sign outside,

At the end of every week if you are ahead and have not paid at least 20% of that amount in commission-you owe it now.


How long would that last?



WEll here Betfair owns the UK Gaming Commission and despite the language on the commission's homepage that directly contradicts this aka one cannot employ confusing rules when one is determing commissions-

they could careless.



Penalizing winners that is exactly what US horse racing needs. Not only a place that penalizes winners but does it in a stealth manner where the tracks don't even get any of that money,

and one needs an advanced degree to figure out what the actual afterall fees and commissions odds they will be getting.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure
Just imagine if the tracks had a sign outside,
I floated the idea recently, I think it was in one of the HANA threads, that in CA, there should be signs posted advertizing the take-out/vig rates for all wagers. It should be posted on all self service machines, within 20 feet of any wagering window and a pop-up on any online platform.

Call it the truth in wagering law.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:37 PM   #24
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It is obvious you have no idea how to help racing, it's customers, nor any concept of value FP

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Old 08-26-2010, 12:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Charlie D
Interesting comments from Burns.

Maybe someone could ask the BF rep why one of Betfair big players (racehorse owner too) is asking UKTote to reduce take to around 12%.
Follow the cash.

He is not going to throw the people who want him there under the bus and vice versa. It's passing a law that has one good thing for him, and another thing he probably really thinks is dumb, but needs support.

The bettors' opinion is felt, with emails etc (which are ignored), but it will be really felt, just like it has the last decade - with them quietly leaving, and gross handles falling and falling.

The premium charge at BF is understood by people who play there. It is a charge against the betting bots who try and sneak in under large bids and trade the markets, not adding much to the customer experience who bet long or short on horses. They want people who take a stand to have a shot, and the bots to pay up if they are going to screw up markets.
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by DeanT
Follow the cash.

He is not going to throw the people who want him there under the bus and vice versa. It's passing a law that has one good thing for him, and another thing he probably really thinks is dumb, but needs support.

The bettors' opinion is felt, with emails etc (which are ignored), but it will be really felt, just like it has the last decade - with them quietly leaving, and gross handles falling and falling.

The premium charge at BF is understood by people who play there. It is a charge against the betting bots who try and sneak in under large bids and trade the markets, not adding much to the customer experience who bet long or short on horses. They want people who take a stand to have a shot, and the bots to pay up if they are going to screw up markets.

Dean. Don't tell em, let them all think exchange betting is an evil monster. They can all then watch thier sport carry on dying.

Last edited by Charlie D; 08-26-2010 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:05 PM   #27
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Its probably never happened in the history of US business where a floundering company raised prices and that price raise got them back to a healthy vibrant company.
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:28 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Foolish Pleasure
Should rename this forum THE BETFAIR LIES.



Soon I will be reading Betfair actually invented gambling.

No Al Gore did.
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:55 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by DJofSD
I floated the idea recently, I think it was in one of the HANA threads, that in CA, there should be signs posted advertizing the take-out/vig rates for all wagers. It should be posted on all self service machines, within 20 feet of any wagering window and a pop-up on any online platform.

Call it the truth in wagering law.

They should print the takeout on every wagering slip next to the amount bet. If they're giving us a fair deal they shouldn't mind.
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Old 08-26-2010, 01:58 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by andymays
This is exactly the kind of twisted deal making that has gone on in California for decades. It's just that lately we are finding out about this stuff.

What pisses me off even more is that no reporter will pin these guys down on this stuff and ask them directly about the side deals. Another reason to be skeptical of industry leadership.




100% with you on this.Reporters in this industry are weak.
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