Chad Brown-ization of NY dirt racing

[GMB@BP]

CJ and I have been kicking around the theory that for whatever reason, and I think it starts in training and then during the races, the NY horses seems to be ridden like turf horses. Rarely are horses just pushed to the lead to use pace which we all know is a staple of dirt racing. Whereas in Socal they are trained the opposite, speed first late burst second.

This seemed to happened about 4-5 years ago to me, about the time the CB barn exploded on the scene. His horses all seem to have that turf style, in fact its tough for me to pick a real speed horse in my mind. So you have someone who trains a lot of top class horses a certain way and I wonder if it hasnt spread to other barns and riders?

Its just a therory, I dont buy that the socal horses are better in terms of talent, in fact there are more quality horses in NY, but with all the shippers winning recently in NY you have to wonder if its more than just a trend.

Also, I wonder if there is not a fitness edge due to the two styles.

Either way, for me I am cool if it doesnt change, its profitable right now.

[cj]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Either way, for me I am cool if it doesnt change, its profitable right now.

And as we've discussed, east coast horses that ship west for turf are a nice little angle too. New York runs so many turf races now it has to have an effect on the riders. In the old days there were one, maybe two a day. Now you get seven or eight.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Absolutely to both your points. I can't even add any more to it. These phenomenons have been friendly to this bettor!

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by CincyHorseplayer

Absolutely to both your points. I can't even add any more to it. These phenomenons have been friendly to this bettor!

I tell you what, if I had a little cash I would be scouring the east coast and EU for second tier horses that can be bought and sending them to two trainers out west D'Amato and Simon Calliahan.

[n.c]

we will know for sure, if West is better than the East..it is pretty much 1 guy who is beating up on the New York trainers.

Belmont day, Baffert had 3 wins..2nd place all East Coast trainers.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by n.c

we will know for sure, if West is better than the East..it is pretty much 1 guy who is beating up on the New York trainers.

Belmont day, Baffert had 3 wins..2nd place all East Coast trainers.

no its not. Simon Callihan has two wins, Pet Miller has another, two horses ran 1-2 in a race Friday. There are more, this is just the last couple months.

This is been going on for a while now.

Baffert is leading the parade but the strike rate and ROI is very high.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by n.c

we will know for sure, if West is better than the East..it is pretty much 1 guy who is beating up on the New York trainers.

Belmont day, Baffert had 3 wins..2nd place all East Coast trainers.

also were not saying the west is better than the east, were saying that the way the horses are being trained and/or ridden is not allowing them to do their best.

Pletcher and JV are probably the exception, he learned from Lukas and is definitely more speed orientated in his approach, but maybe he has not had as good of stock as he normally does.

[n.c]

Pat Day Mile- Wild Shot
Distaff- Paulasssilver lining
Sprint- Limo Liberal( Colebrook, ex Clemente guy??)
KY Derby- Always Dreaming

3 out of the 4 dirt races won by East trainers and the 4th won by Colebrook.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Another thread hijacked by an invisible rivalry? I thought this was about player angles that work.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by n.c

Pat Day Mile- Wild Shot
Distaff- Paulasssilver lining
Sprint- Limo Liberal( Colebrook, ex Clemente guy??)
KY Derby- Always Dreaming

3 out of the 4 dirt races won by East trainers and the 4th won by Colebrook.

Forego - west coast
Travers - west coast
Personal Ensign - Ky
Test- 1-2 west coast

most of the two year old stakes have been shippers, in fact maybe all of them.

Looks, just saying, the evidence is mounting up. The grab and hold tactics win, yes when the trips are sweet (ie Jim Dandy winner).

You can ignore it all you want.

Its the opposite on turf shippers coming out west, its gotta be 50% strike rate. The west coast trainers are struggling on turf since Whittingham and Frankel retired, also the stock quality is down without some of the major turf owners sending good stock there anymore.

[n.c]

and what is the %???? Baffert is the greatest..Imagine if you say, East coast dominated west coast during 80's and 90's, nba basketball( it is 1 guy, Jordan

What if you say West coast Stanford guys dominated Golf in the 2000's( Tiger Woods)

I would like to see the stats with out the great Baffert.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Random Chad Brown question: Does anyone know the percentage of races in which he has had starter(s) that have won? Basically, not his win percentage as a product of starters (since he constantly has doubles) but as a product of races instead. Maybe I can search and it is common knowledge but I've been curious anyway and heard someone on one of the broadcasts remarking on what a feat all that winning is when your own starters are dragging your numbers down even when you win.

[n.c]

Philip D'Amato
Doug F. O'Neill
Mark Glatt
Richard Baltas
Peter Miller
John W. Sadler

Simon Callaghan
Robert B. Hess, Jr.
Michael W. McCarth


How many of these guys have come to New York and dominated??? and if you could give out the name of the horses

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by n.c

Philip D'Amato
Doug F. O'Neill
Mark Glatt
Richard Baltas
Peter Miller
John W. Sadler

Simon Callaghan
Robert B. Hess, Jr.
Michael W. McCarth


How many of these guys have come to New York and dominated??? and if you could give out the name of the horses

I would go Baffert-Hollendorfer-Mandella-D'Amota, Callihan, Sadler, Miller

Miller still wins a lot of the cheaper races...

No one gets the stock that Baffert does, its a drop off. There is no Pletcher-Brown type deal, and now that Casse goes to Saratoga versus Del Mar there is even less at this particular meet.

Oneil is ok but man, figuring out what his plan is with the horse is never easy.

I have no idea where Baltas has come from, he was never this good for a lot of years.

[cj]

Originally Posted by n.c

Philip D'Amato
Doug F. O'Neill
Mark Glatt
Richard Baltas
Peter Miller
John W. Sadler

Simon Callaghan
Robert B. Hess, Jr.
Michael W. McCarth


How many of these guys have come to New York and dominated??? and if you could give out the name of the horses

It isn't just going to New York and dominating. It is Breeders' Cups too.

2016 5 of 7 dirt winners SoCal based.
2015 3 of 7
2014 3 of 7
2013 4 of 7
2012 1 of 7

And it isn't like the rest are New York based. They were spread around a bit.