Bowling alleys and race tracks

[elhelmete]

Originally Posted by Candybag

Do state governments ever use tax money for racetracks?

Wrong question, and you know it.

[Candybag]

Originally Posted by elhelmete

Wrong question, and you know it.

Right question and I know the answer. And the person who is putting me in front of important people knows the answer. He will be making calls this week.

Farcical is not a word he has used to describe my idea.

[elhelmete]

Originally Posted by Candybag

Right question and I know the answer. And the person who is putting me in front of important people knows the answer. He will be making calls this week.

Farcical is not a word he has used to describe my idea.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

I thought you were betting $200 win bets on 30 races a day? What is $354.

He's probably cashing 25-30% of them. And showing a profit.
$354 is a totally different game.

[racenomics]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

The point I am trying to make is people have friends. The conversation goes " I have $400 ticket play in the big rainbow 6 carryover on Sunday and would like to sell 50% of the ticket, would you like to go in". They either join in or they don't. No haggling over horses. I make the ticket they choose whether to join in and for how much. Many people probably don't know the first thing about horse racing and would be happy to join in for small percentage, just to have some fun.

They have this on twinspires

[racenomics]

Originally Posted by Poindexter

Thaskalos, I don’t know, but is possible. You live in Vegas part of the year. Someone hits a big jackpot the local news often reports it. You even see billboards “I won $3000 at xyz casino”. Is that a big deal? At any given point during the day or night, how many people are dropping money in slots? Every casino is full of them. Strip or non strip. So yes once in a while someone will hit a big jackpot. Wow , exciting stuff. Well it seems to be for some bizarre reason.

Mjc, to grind money out in this game is a second job. But the drf or whatever your past performances of choice, gives the novice bettor a ton of tools to at least make a somewhat informed decision. Ultimately on a 20 cent minimum play you can pick 3 random contenders/horses in an each race for about $146. I would imagine it is not unusual for many to put that much money into a power ball when they give away a billion dollars. Compare the odds.

Ch often mentions Chris Moneymaker and poker. Who is to say that the racing industry did not have its own Chris moneymaker, yesterday or some other day. Of course if nobody knows about it, what is the difference?

This is a horse racing forum and if did not post, there would likely have been no mention of the rainbow 6 paying 1.8 million on a 20 cent ticket.

https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...r-12892798.php

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/woman-...ry?id=54972021

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

1. I don't think that there are many horseplayers out there who have quit the horses so they can play scratch off lottery tickets. And the lotto is an entirely different ballgame. I too play the lotto once in a long while, whenever I have a peculiar dream.

2. I don't know when the last time was that you entered an actual OTB. I go to those places once in a while, and they are virtual ghost towns. The few people who are there are just seeking shelter from the cold. And most of the OTBs have closed down altogether. When people play a gambling game and then they stop, they stop for some good reason... and you aren't going to succeed in bringing them back by way of some clever marketing maneuver. The casual horseplayer has been abandoning this game in droves...and the horse racing industry has never seemed particularly bothered by this development. All they have done is cut a deal with the computer groups, so the mega-betting computer guys can pick up the slack. No concern at all has been given for the plight of the "average" horseplayer. And you now think that this industry will finally make an effort to "recapture that segment of the market"?

I think you are missing my point. It's not about salvaging OTBs. There's probably still a place for a handful of simulcast centers in some areas, but that model is mostly obsolete. It's about trying to bring back some of those former "OTB type" bettors. Some of them lose the same amount or more gambling on other things now. In the case of scratch offs they lose it even faster.

We need some imaginative marketing.

It's not just about the track take. We need less efficient pools to give us all a better chance of profit or the game will eventually become obsolete.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I think you are missing my point. It's not about salvaging OTBs. There's probably still a place for a handful of simulcast centers in some areas, but that model is mostly obsolete. It's about trying to bring back some of those former "OTB type" bettors. Some of them lose the same amount or more gambling on other things now. In the case of scratch offs they lose it even faster.

We need some imaginative marketing.

It's not just about the track take. We need less efficient pools to give us all a better chance of profit or the game will eventually become obsolete.

It has always been my feeling that the reason Horse Racing in the U.S. has slowly deteriorated for the last 40+ years is because every track owner is a solo participant.

I have said forever that IF the racetracks worked together and had a commissioner and a setup similar to the big 3 sports, it could and I assume would thrive.

With each track owner trying to hold on to THEIR piece, many are on a slow steady decline.

NY racing is a different animal but all these other states are seemingly trying to carry water by cupping their hands. It's like a slow to steady leak IMO.

Does what I think make sense to you or anyone else?

Thanks in advance.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

It has always been my feeling that the reason Horse Racing in the U.S. has slowly deteriorated for the last 40+ years is because every track owner is a solo participant.

I have said forever that IF the racetracks worked together and had a commissioner and a setup similar to the big 3 sports, it could and I assume would thrive.

With each track owner trying to hold on to THEIR piece, many are on a slow steady decline.

NY racing is a different animal but all these other states are seemingly trying to carry water by cupping their hands. It's like a slow to steady leak IMO.

Does what I think make sense to you or anyone else?

Thanks in advance.

I think most of us agree with you, it just seems nearly impossible to bring all of the different jurisdictions together. It feels like asking the five local burger places to join up to take on McDonald's (McDonald's in this case being casino and sports gaming). The local places are so desperate to hang on to what they have that they can't see the forest for the trees.

[Poindexter]

Ch, you can never have less efficient pools. The industry has built the model of providing the sharpest players, enormous rebates. Barring the huge days when the general public is actually betting large amounts of money, the caw will iron out most of the inefficiencies from the pools. The best way to make the pools less efficient is to eliminate rebates. If you listen to anyone who went from not getting rebates to getting rebates, they will tell you that their betting goes up exponentially. Thus rebates drive more sharp money into the pools. “ But the racing industry needs the caw or there is no game.” Well it obviously did not start out this way, this has been an evolving self fulfilling prophecy. The ramifications of all of this are that the game is just too expensive for even the suckers. You can bring the dumb money in for a while, but it ultimately exits the building and finds better gambling options. There is only one cure for this, but the racing industry prefers hospice to healing. They have a Vic Staufer like faith that the game will always remain. In the meantime they seek out every form of charity they can get. So maybe Candybag can buy them a couple more years. But whatever charity this sport sees, it never works itself back to the consumer (horse player). So good luck finding those inefficient pools.

Somebody once told me to adapt or die. I have adapted by chasing carryovers, and betting small for entertainment elsewhere on days that I do play.

The industry also needs to adapt or die and they have chosen to die. Enjoy the show while we have it.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by castaway01

I think most of us agree with you, it just seems nearly impossible to bring all of the different jurisdictions together. It feels like asking the five local burger places to join up to take on McDonald's (McDonald's in this case being casino and sports gaming). The local places are so desperate to hang on to what they have that they can't see the forest for the trees.

Yeah, I'm with you . Can you imagine if all the tracks did got one commissioner
and started marketing apparel as well as the game. Fanatic's is valued at roughly 3-4 billion with what they do. Certainly they could do something to generate income, popularity, etc. with them.
Hard to believe track owners can't get past themselves and see what could be.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I think you are missing my point. It's not about salvaging OTBs. There's probably still a place for a handful of simulcast centers in some areas, but that model is mostly obsolete. It's about trying to bring back some of those former "OTB type" bettors. Some of them lose the same amount or more gambling on other things now. In the case of scratch offs they lose it even faster.

We need some imaginative marketing.

It's not just about the track take. We need less efficient pools to give us all a better chance of profit or the game will eventually become obsolete.

I think you are missing my point too. Those former "OTB type" players that you think should be "brought back" to the game have already tried this game out and have REJECTED it. They are not new customers that you are trying to attract to a new gambling/entertainment experience by way of some sort of "imaginative marketing". Once you try a game out and you reject it for whatever reason, and you go out and find a different game to play...why would you return to your former game, unless this game changes in some fundamental way so it could again become interesting to you? Have you seen our favorite game become more "interesting" lately so it can regain the customers that it has already lost?

[thaskalos]

Honest question to all the experienced horseplayers of this board:

If you go to a racetrack or an OTB and you ask 20 customers if they think the races are "fixed"... how many of them do you think will give you a "yes" answer? Honestly.

[Candybag]

We have our first state that will be targeted for the idea. Cannot release the name yet. The horsemen will be approached within a week.

The following may not be the best ideas, just to start conversation:

For the $50 a day bettor, I have some promotional ideas to get them to the track

For the up to $500 a day bettor: Fixed odds wagering, prop bets and exchange wagering. It is very possible the sharpies get barred from action or bets limited, still a better deal for the casual bettor

For the CAWs: No change

We have an owner of a ADW on board with ideas.

We also have a board member of a racetrack on board with ideas.

Would need legislation to get player friendly wagering ideas to happen if all goes well.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Honest question to all the experienced horseplayers of this board:

If you go to a racetrack or an OTB and you ask 20 customers if they think the races are "fixed"... how many of them do you think will give you a "yes" answer? Honestly.

Probably about 70% would say yes and some might hem and haw but end up with saying "maybe a little bit".
I would be surprised if any said a flat out no. Or maybe one.

I actually did that in Md. in the late 80's.