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Old 08-08-2017, 06:13 PM   #46
jms62
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Originally Posted by foregoforever View Post
If there is a boycott, it shouldn't be just a few bets, or just Keeneland. It should be for all USA racing for some meaningful period of time. There shouldn't be any built-in excuses for handle shifting to other wagers or tracks. Just suggest that everyone take a break from the game for a few weeks. The crappy product is everywhere.

Perhaps HANA could put out a guide for giving up horse racing, with tables showing the rake for better alternatives. There could be sections on poker or other sports wagering as alternatives. Or suggesting HK or Australian racing. Maybe re-purposing your binoculars for bird watching.

The industry has been spitting in the eyes of horseplayers for years. It's time to start spitting back.
What you are saying is 100% spot on. It will never happen.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:19 PM   #47
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What you are saying is 100% spot on. It will never happen.
why won't it happen? people sick of getting punished to death
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:35 PM   #48
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why won't it happen?...
Probably the same reason a nationwide boycott of smack use to protest prices would never fly.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:56 PM   #49
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Probably the same reason a nationwide boycott of smack use to protest prices would never fly.

So very true.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:09 PM   #50
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What you are saying is 100% spot on. It will never happen.
It has already been happening. It may not be a boycott, but bettors are leaving and have been for years.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:22 PM   #51
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It has already been happening. It may not be a boycott, but bettors are leaving and have been for years.

And dying off.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:23 PM   #52
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It has already been happening. It may not be a boycott, but bettors are leaving and have been for years.
Bettors are leaving...but they aren't leaving a clear message as they depart. The horse racing industry isn't sure that the bettors are leaving because they are disgruntled with the game. The industry leaders prefer to believe that the horseplayers are leaving because they are dying...or that they've gotten "lazy"...and they prefer the "mindless" games of the casinos.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:32 PM   #53
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And dying off.
Customers die off from all businesses. If they aren't being replaced by new blood, it is the same thing.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:32 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Bettors are leaving...but they aren't leaving a clear message as they depart. The horse racing industry isn't sure that the bettors are leaving because they are disgruntled with the game. The industry leaders prefer to believe that the horseplayers are leaving because they are dying...or that they've gotten "lazy"...and they prefer the "mindless" games of the casinos.

The message is clear, those in charge just doesn't want to see it.
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Old 08-08-2017, 07:34 PM   #55
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One of the reasons I was a founding member of HANA was because I got tired of seeing and experiencing first hand the way horseplayers were being treated by the management of racetracks. Horseplayers had always been taken for granted because racetracks had a monopoly on gambling for many years.

Unfortunately, racetracks never adapted to the reality of the boom of other types of gambling that was becoming available. Racetrack management continued to treat horseplayers the way they always had -- like their personal cash cows to be milked for every penny in their pockets -- literally. #breakage

An analogy: About 25 or 30 years ago discount stock brokerage firms started popping up. One big full-service brokerage firm complained to an IBM executive who was consulting to them that the discounters were killing their business. The big firms asked what they should do. The executive said he didn't have a solution, but that they had better figure it out or else they will be out of business. Some of them have disappeared -- just like the racetracks.

Young people are not interested in going to the races. They have cell phones and are in constant contact with their friends. They are not going to sit down with a racing form and try to handicap a race. Let's face it, handicapping is pretty boring and tedious for most people. Casual gamblers aren't going to get on online account to just to bet on the color of a jockey's silks. They'd rather buy a lottery ticket or go to the nearest casino and play any one of the myriad of games that can more quickly jump start their endorphin buzz.

HANA did call for a boycott of California racing one year, which seemed like a good thing for horseplayers. It seemed at first the boycott worked, but it kind of fizzled out. It's really hard to maintain momentum. For the most part, HANA has been somewhat of a toothless tiger. They've never really played hardball and playing hard is what it takes to change a culture. Changing a culture is really, really, hard.

If HANA is serious then they need to take serious measures. Talk is cheap. The first place to start is to read "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky. Now there's a guy who knew how to get results!

Other than personally boycotting tracks with high takeouts there is not much an individual horseplayer can do. However, for horseplayers serious about pushing the industry to change; joining HANA to get involved in kicking some racing industry managers in the butt to get them to move in a more favorable direction for horseplayers could be a whole lot of fun. But is it worth it? Only you can decide.
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:06 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by highnote View Post
One of the reasons I was a founding member of HANA was because I got tired of seeing and experiencing first hand the way horseplayers were being treated by the management of racetracks. Horseplayers had always been taken for granted because racetracks had a monopoly on gambling for many years.

Unfortunately, racetracks never adapted to the reality of the boom of other types of gambling that was becoming available. Racetrack management continued to treat horseplayers the way they always had -- like their personal cash cows to be milked for every penny in their pockets -- literally. #breakage

An analogy: About 25 or 30 years ago discount stock brokerage firms started popping up. One big full-service brokerage firm complained to an IBM executive who was consulting to them that the discounters were killing their business. The big firms asked what they should do. The executive said he didn't have a solution, but that they had better figure it out or else they will be out of business. Some of them have disappeared -- just like the racetracks.

Young people are not interested in going to the races. They have cell phones and are in constant contact with their friends. They are not going to sit down with a racing form and try to handicap a race. Let's face it, handicapping is pretty boring and tedious for most people. Casual gamblers aren't going to get on online account to just to bet on the color of a jockey's silks. They'd rather buy a lottery ticket or go to the nearest casino and play any one of the myriad of games that can more quickly jump start their endorphin buzz.

HANA did call for a boycott of California racing one year, which seemed like a good thing for horseplayers. It seemed at first the boycott worked, but it kind of fizzled out. It's really hard to maintain momentum. For the most part, HANA has been somewhat of a toothless tiger. They've never really played hardball and playing hard is what it takes to change a culture. Changing a culture is really, really, hard.

If HANA is serious then they need to take serious measures. Talk is cheap. The first place to start is to read "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky. Now there's a guy who knew how to get results!

Other than personally boycotting tracks with high takeouts there is not much an individual horseplayer can do. However, for horseplayers serious about pushing the industry to change; joining HANA to get involved in kicking some racing industry managers in the butt to get them to move in a more favorable direction for horseplayers could be a whole lot of fun. But is it worth it? Only you can decide.
this is a different story from so. cal. the only ones players that got hurt by the takeout hike was the ones that didn't get rebates, this time around they are targeting the rebate players. they aren't going to play that place. they will be NYRA or someplace else. you don't even need to form a boycott on this one.
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:08 PM   #57
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Customers die off from all businesses. If they aren't being replaced by new blood, it is the same thing.

Isnt there a larger portion of customers that are old compared to other games because new customers never got involved recently? If so the dying off would have a larger impact than with other games.
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:11 PM   #58
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The whole parlay vs. pic x argument is the biggest fallacy in horse racing. The crowd as a whole is losing money at a much faster rate betting exotics than WPS despite payoffs being higher than the parlay.

What you can do is argue that the pic x offers the potential to overcome the higher take because if the crowd makes multiple mistakes within the same bet sequence it can sometimes offer tremendous value.
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:24 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by thaskalos View Post
Bettors are leaving...but they aren't leaving a clear message as they depart. The horse racing industry isn't sure that the bettors are leaving because they are disgruntled with the game. The industry leaders prefer to believe that the horseplayers are leaving because they are dying...or that they've gotten "lazy"...and they prefer the "mindless" games of the casinos.
There are different types of players with different goals and desires and the industry needs to market to them differently.

I know less than nothing about marketing, but it would take a very different strategy to get me to triple my handle than what it would take to get some of the customers at the AQU casino to head over the clubhouse to bet on horses instead of machines.
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:31 PM   #60
Andy Asaro
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If there is a boycott, it shouldn't be just a few bets, or just Keeneland. It should be for all USA racing for some meaningful period of time. There shouldn't be any built-in excuses for handle shifting to other wagers or tracks. Just suggest that everyone take a break from the game for a few weeks. The crappy product is everywhere.

Perhaps HANA could put out a guide for giving up horse racing, with tables showing the rake for better alternatives. There could be sections on poker or other sports wagering as alternatives. Or suggesting HK or Australian racing. Maybe re-purposing your binoculars for bird watching.

The industry has been spitting in the eyes of horseplayers for years. It's time to start spitting back.
This is the consequence of failure to boycott Ca over the jackpot bet follies and the late announced gelding scandals. Ca was an easy jurisdiction to make a statement but HANA never stepped up.

It's all right here and there were multiple times before this that they should have stepped up.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s...boycott&page=2
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