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Old 07-21-2018, 12:18 PM   #61
Andy Asaro
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P Val has had one positive in his life. How many has Desormeaux had? And he's ridden while having alcohol in his system. Furthermore hair follicle tests now go back something like 9 months. If every jockeys was subjected to a hair follicle test how many would pass? 50%?
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:46 PM   #62
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I certainly don't believe I have a right to gainful employment as a lawyer if I violate the rules of the State Bar.

Regulated positions are different than being a grocer or a Starbucks barista. You don't have any "right" to work in them. And regulators are not a star chamber. Every single time Pat has been suspended, he had the right to a hearing, briefing, counsel, etc., and a right to both administrative and court appeals.
He served his suspensions, he doesn't have to answer for them indefinitely because you think so -- does he? He does get to work for a living like everyone else, so why aren't you done with his suspensions? If you don't like the rules the lobby to change them.

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Old 07-21-2018, 02:22 PM   #63
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He served his suspensions, he doesn't have to answer for them indefinitely because you think so -- does he? He does get to work for a living like everyone else, so why aren't you done with his suspensions? If you don't like the rules the lobby to change them.
There isn't any automatic right to be reinstated here. You are acting like he got days for riding infractions or something. He committed one of the most serious offenses a jockey can commit, over and over sgain, and lied to racing officials over and over again.
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:26 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Andy Asaro View Post
P Val has had one positive in his life. How many has Desormeaux had? And he's ridden while having alcohol in his system. Furthermore hair follicle tests now go back something like 9 months. If every jockeys was subjected to a hair follicle test how many would pass? 50%?
1 positive test is not the issue. How many times did he violate the rules and use drugs? How many times did he tell lies, duck drug tests, shave body hair, etc.?

1 positive test is a testament to his evasive conduct.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:37 PM   #65
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There isn't any automatic right to be reinstated here. You are acting like he got days for riding infractions or something. He committed one of the most serious offenses a jockey can commit, over and over sgain, and lied to racing officials over and over again.
I hear what you are saying. I don't understand your position of contempt about a person's choices, decisions or behavior instead of the process that allows it. Do you care to explain that? It seems that this thread is devolving into making copious personal statements over and over under the guise of "what's good for the game". If he was licensed and got mounts would you think the market awarding him mounts is corrupt? They will conduct the personal interviews on everyone's behalf before he drives their treasured sports cars around the track, what part of that is broken?
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:18 AM   #66
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I hear what you are saying. I don't understand your position of contempt about a person's choices, decisions or behavior instead of the process that allows it. Do you care to explain that? It seems that this thread is devolving into making copious personal statements over and over under the guise of "what's good for the game". If he was licensed and got mounts would you think the market awarding him mounts is corrupt? They will conduct the personal interviews on everyone's behalf before he drives their treasured sports cars around the track, what part of that is broken?
The stewards and racing commissions hsve the final say. I don't call them corrupt.

And I don't think this is an issue of "a person's choices". Therer are very good reasons not to allow people with his record to hold licenses, as I have stated.
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:40 AM   #67
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It seems those sticking up for P Val are ignoring the countless times he put riders and horses in unnecessary danger because he rode in a race while under the influence or coming down from a bender. He was also constantly trying to defeat the safe guards that were in place. I remember him shaving all his body hair off, that took the cake. He has had enough chances, and at 55 with years of drug abuse under his belt I would question his mental fitness for riding, even if he was still physically fit.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:03 AM   #68
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1 positive test is not the issue. How many times did he violate the rules and use drugs? How many times did he tell lies, duck drug tests, shave body hair, etc.?

1 positive test is a testament to his evasive conduct.
Hair follicle tests are ridiculous. Who cares what the person did 6 months ago? As long as a urine test is past before and after the races then he should be able to ride.

How do you reconcile the difference between Desormeaux riding intoxicated who knows how many times and getting caught 3 or 4 times. Why not ask him to give a hair follicle test? And that's the problem. Treat everyone the same.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:14 AM   #69
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Hair follicle tests are ridiculous. Who cares what the person did 6 months ago? As long as a urine test is past before and after the races then he should be able to ride.

How do you reconcile the difference between Desormeaux riding intoxicated who knows how many times and getting caught 3 or 4 times. Why not ask him to give a hair follicle test? And that's the problem. Treat everyone the same.

You can't see the difference? The stuff P Val was doing is ILLEGAL. You can drink a couple beers and be fine, it also clears your system pretty fast. People drink in moderation all the time with little effect. Last I checked no one gets a little high on what P Val was doing. Also the hair follicle test was because P Val was on a short leash as he probably was given his 25th last chance. Your bias in this is laughable.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:40 AM   #70
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Hadn't read this thread before, but this is effing nuts.


Patrick Valenzuela is a great jockey when all things are right with him and his head.


Patrick Valenzuela is also a drug addict that should be nowhere near a 1,000 pound plus animal that can injure himself, or more importantly, others.


This is a seriously dangerous game. And every time jockeys step aboard a mount in a race against other 1,000 pound animals with people on their backs, it can easily be their last. First and foremost, it isn't fair to the other jockeys, horses, trainers, owners in the race if he is on board any animal. Second, it isn't fair to the wagering public.


PVAL has had numerous chances. If he wants to ride, a daily urine test would be the absolute minimum for him to deserve a chance to endanger others.



However, at some point in time, some people simply don't deserve another 'chance' to earn a ride in such a wickedly dangerous sport.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:48 AM   #71
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Time has taken away Pat's last chance. If you had a winner would you go to Pat when the room is full of GOOD young riders.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:38 AM   #72
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Hair follicle tests are ridiculous. Who cares what the person did 6 months ago? As long as a urine test is past before and after the races then he should be able to ride.

How do you reconcile the difference between Desormeaux riding intoxicated who knows how many times and getting caught 3 or 4 times. Why not ask him to give a hair follicle test? And that's the problem. Treat everyone the same.
1. Since jockeys are NEVER supposed to touch narcotics, I think hair follicle tests are just fine. They also detect anyone who might be gaming a urine test.

2. Even if you are correct about the lenient treatment of Kent, it has nothing to do with letting P. Val. back. At any rate, P. Val. was treated plenty lenient himself and was given numerous chances.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:56 PM   #73
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1. Since jockeys are NEVER supposed to touch narcotics, I think hair follicle tests are just fine. They also detect anyone who might be gaming a urine test.

2. Even if you are correct about the lenient treatment of Kent, it has nothing to do with letting P. Val. back. At any rate, P. Val. was treated plenty lenient himself and was given numerous chances.
Jockeys are never supposed to touch narcotics? Then lets test them all and verify that they haven't touched narcotics in the last 9 months. We'll ban all those that test positive for life. About 50% would test positive IMO. Especially for pain killers and uppers.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:21 PM   #74
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1. Since jockeys are NEVER supposed to touch narcotics, I think hair follicle tests are just fine. They also detect anyone who might be gaming a urine test.

2. Even if you are correct about the lenient treatment of Kent, it has nothing to do with letting P. Val. back. At any rate, P. Val. was treated plenty lenient himself and was given numerous chances.
You have no personnel knowledge about Pats back ground and the environment he was raised in, that being said I think you need to slow your hateful roll and stop kicking a man when he's down. Hope you don't ever need a helping hand.
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:42 AM   #75
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You have no personnel knowledge about Pats back ground and the environment he was raised in, that being said I think you need to slow your hateful roll and stop kicking a man when he's down. Hope you don't ever need a helping hand.
Or ten helping hands, as the case might be.

At what point does one say, ok, that's it. I'm done being made a fool of by giving this guy a ton of chances only to watch him piss away each and every one.
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