Should trainers share some of the risk?

[Imriledup]

What is the difference between trainers, owners, bettors and jockeys? Which one doesn't belong?

I'll give you a hint. Its trainers.

By my calculations, trainers are the only one in this group of 4 who actually gets paid no matter what. Owners, Bettors and jockeys only get paid if they win.

Owners, trainers and jockeys have to win to stay afloat in this game, where trainers just have to have enough horses to collect a day rate to pay their bills and support their families.

Its a good gig if you can get it.

[ManeMediaMogul]

Obviously you don't have any idea about what it takes to run a racing stable.

Trainers have tons of risk. They put up the first months training in advance (roughly $3000 US) for every horse in their barn. Then they bill.

Hopefully, the owner pays within 10 days, if they don't the trainer is on the line for another $1500 to $2000 of payroll, feed and tack. If the owner stiffs them, they lose all that. It happens all the time.

(I have been stiffed by owners for over $200,000 in 20 years.)

Usually, the day rate is about $10 over what the actual cost of training is, so you need 10 horses to make $100 a day on day money. That's a $36,000 a year job. If somebody stiffs you for one month's income, that's 10% of your salary. You can get wiped out in a hurry.

It is an exciting life but it is not easy money. You need to win and you need to get paid.

Get a clue. If it was easy everybody would do it.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by ManeMediaMogul

Obviously you don't have any idea about what it takes to run a racing stable.

Trainers have tons of risk. They put up the first months training in advance (roughly $3000 US) for every horse in their barn. Then they bill.

Hopefully, the owner pays within 10 days, if they don't the trainer is on the line for another $1500 to $2000 of payroll, feed and tack. If the owner stiffs them, they lose all that. It happens all the time.

(I have been stiffed by owners for over $200,000 in 20 years.)

Usually, the day rate is about $10 over what the actual cost of training is, so you need 10 horses to make $100 a day on day money. That's a $36,000 a year job. If somebody stiffs you for one month's income, that's 10% of your salary. You can get wiped out in a hurry.

It is an exciting life but it is not easy money. You need to win and you need to get paid.

Get a clue. If it was easy everybody would do it.

Could not agree more---being an owner, I cannot believe the stress and annoyance that my trainer goes through-"good work if you can get it" and saying it is "easy" is as far from the truth as you can get-it is a tough, often thankless job that never stops and rarely has off time

[DSB]

MMM,

Spot on.

What a lot of people don't understand is that day money is right around break even for a lot of trainers.

Exercise riders, grooms, pony girls, hotwalkers, and vets are all guaranteed to be paid for their work.

Trainers, unless they are getting an exorbitant day rate, are not.

They exist off their 10% across the board money, and are not that much different than jockeys in that respect. However, jocks are always guaranteed a losing mount.

Trainers are guaranteed nothing.

[Shemp Howard]

You need to add to that list the "managing partners" who operate those racing partnerships many racing fans have lost money on.

10% of all purse money (I know of one who took $3.60 of a 10th place finish at Timonium), inflated monthly bills, charges for box seats at the track, his breakfast every morning, etc etc.

You may only live once, but if you do it right to a bunch of innocent suckers, once is more than enough.

[garyscpa]

MMM,

Does a trainer have any rights with a horse if the owner doesn't pay, such as dropping the horse in for a cheap claim and keeping the money?

[slewis]

Originally Posted by garyscpa

MMM,

Does a trainer have any rights with a horse if the owner doesn't pay, such as dropping the horse in for a cheap claim and keeping the money?

No he cannot and does not. Like most other business it's "know your customer".

When acting as an agent for owners, the first question I'm asked by a trainer who I ask to train our horses is "does your owner pay his bills"?

The only recourse a trainer has is to go to the stewards and complain that an owner is not paying. By that time, they have usually parted company and the horses go to another trainer. I have had trainers tell me they are not "releasing" the horse to the new trainer until they have been paid in full, but we have always paid our bills so the squabble never gets too far.
MMM makes a valid point that owners stiff trainers for 10's of thousands...
But trainers also ruin horses for their own personal good (like racing a horse when they should back off making an existing problem worse, but winning the race and getting they're take.)

One more thing... I have never met a trainer that admits they make any money on day money... and many say they lose.... Dont believe it....

In NY 90% of trainers get $85 per day or more. Most are getting $90 or $100.
Some top guys getting $120 per day.
Let me put it like this:

Even the little guys that rarely win are all driving Mercedes and BMW's.

Nevertheless, it's a very difficult job... 7 days a week... 360 per yr.

[garyscpa]

Originally Posted by slewis

One more thing... I have never met a trainer that admits they make any money on day money... and many say they lose.... Dont believe it....

In NY 90% of trainers get $85 per day or more. Most are getting $90 or $100.
Some top guys getting $120 per day.
Let me put it like this:

Even the little guys that rarely win are all driving Mercedes and BMW's.

Nevertheless, it's a very difficult job... 7 days a week... 360 per yr.

That's why they're not making any money-their business car.

Thanks for the reply, slewis.

[DSB]

Originally Posted by slewis

In NY 90% of trainers get $85 per day or more. Most are getting $90 or $100.
Some top guys getting $120 per day.

This is what I meant by "exorbitant".

Many guys in NJ get around $50 a day.... right around break even.

[Mineshaft]

At $80-100 per day only the wealthy can afford that and i would think all trainers make money at 80-100 per day.


At $40-50 a day most trainers break even.

[jotb]

Originally Posted by ManeMediaMogul

Obviously you don't have any idea about what it takes to run a racing stable.

Trainers have tons of risk. They put up the first months training in advance (roughly $3000 US) for every horse in their barn. Then they bill.

Hopefully, the owner pays within 10 days, if they don't the trainer is on the line for another $1500 to $2000 of payroll, feed and tack. If the owner stiffs them, they lose all that. It happens all the time.

(I have been stiffed by owners for over $200,000 in 20 years.)

Usually, the day rate is about $10 over what the actual cost of training is, so you need 10 horses to make $100 a day on day money. That's a $36,000 a year job. If somebody stiffs you for one month's income, that's 10% of your salary. You can get wiped out in a hurry.

It is an exciting life but it is not easy money. You need to win and you need to get paid.

Get a clue. If it was easy everybody would do it.

I'm sorry to hear that some of your owners have stiffed you over the years. I hear this just about everyday on the racetrack. Let's face it, some owners don't belong in the game at all. They come in with beer pocket's and expect miracles. The best is when an owner already has a reputation for not paying their bills and somehow another trainer takes the shot and takes on this same owner and thinks he or she will change this owner. Some trainers are so desperate and these type owners know it. Some of these trainers are only getting $35 a day. On top of it, they inherit some $4,000 horse, (already on the bottom) that just won't win. Everytime there's a race in the book for the horse the owner is forcing the trainer to run. If the horse ran 10 day's ago, the owner wants to run right back in the same race. If the trainer can't get the horse in the race, then the owner wants to run the horse in a higher claiming race. If it's not the horses prefered distance, they still put the horse in. If the horse runs up the track then, it's the jocks fault. "I was stiffed" are the famous words you hear from the trainer's and owner's mouths. In cases like this, I believe the owner and trainer deserve each other.

Joe

[Mineshaft]

If im the trainer and the owner doesnt pay then the only way the owner gets the horse or wants to run the horse is when he pays the bill in full. A lock will be on the stall door of the horse till bill is paid.

[macguy]

There's a really good DVD out about Richard Mandella. It profiles his racing stable, some of his horses, and his day-to-day life.

One of my favorite quotes of Richards from the movie is "I charge $100/day to these owners for these horses, and I'm losing money, I've got to win to come out ahead."

[098poi]

Originally Posted by slewis

No he cannot and does not. Like most other business it's "know your customer".

When acting as an agent for owners, the first question I'm asked by a trainer who I ask to train our horses is "does your owner pay his bills"?

The only recourse a trainer has is to go to the stewards and complain that an owner is not paying. By that time, they have usually parted company and the horses go to another trainer. I have had trainers tell me they are not "releasing" the horse to the new trainer until they have been paid in full, but we have always paid our bills so the squabble never gets too far.
MMM makes a valid point that owners stiff trainers for 10's of thousands...
But trainers also ruin horses for their own personal good (like racing a horse when they should back off making an existing problem worse, but winning the race and getting they're take.)

One more thing... I have never met a trainer that admits they make any money on day money... and many say they lose.... Dont believe it....

In NY 90% of trainers get $85 per day or more. Most are getting $90 or $100.
Some top guys getting $120 per day.
Let me put it like this:

Even the little guys that rarely win are all driving Mercedes and BMW's.

Nevertheless, it's a very difficult job... 7 days a week... 360 per yr.

Even the little guys that rarely win are all driving Mercedes and BMW's.

Congratulations!!! You have won an honorable mention for using those three words without referring to Andy S.

[slewis]

Originally Posted by DSB

This is what I meant by "exorbitant".

Many guys in NJ get around $50 a day.... right around break even.