The Man O War

[Observer]

Don't think Curlin devalued himself at all. If anything, he proved he's certanly capable of running on turf. He ran with proven, quality turf horses. That just opens the door to more interest in him as a stallion, maybe even to overseas interests.

Those who were interested in him as a stallion before, are certainly not going to back down now because he ran second on the turf.

It's a refreshing change to see connections ambitious with their horse. Would have been great to see him win, but even in defeat it was great to see him run well.

Just the fact that he is even still racing goes against the grain of current trends. Now add the test on turf to prove that he's truely the kind of horse we haven't seen in a long, long time .. it's a wonderful aspect that has been missing from the sport.

Not many top quality horses handle both surfaces. The casual fan, outside of California, likely does not know the name Lava Man. Not many horses have come along to do great things on both surfaces .. Secretariat and John Henry are the quickest to come to mind, and even they didn't win all the time. Curlin's still got time to prove true greatness.

I'd love to see them give him another shot. What's he got left to prove on dirt?? There's not much competition out there, so why get criticized for beating up on weaker competition (Stephen Foster)? He faced a solid group on the grass yesterday .. be nice to see a second try at it.

[Marshall Bennett]

Originally Posted by joanied

They may change their minds for the Arc now...unless they try him on turf again and he wins...but to say his stallion value has gone down is wrong, or that he's not as much horse as before the Man O War, IMO, is also wrong.
Marshall Bennet, like anyone esle, is entitled to his opinion...most of us do not agree with it.
I beleive his value is now better than ever...he CAN run on grass, and if he were mine, I'd sure try him on artificial surfaces now...seems to me, since he did run very well on turf, he can sure navigate on poly...and a couple of wins on that surface will also increase his value as a stallion that has done it all. Even if he never runs on grass again, he prooved he can handle it. Getting beat by a horse like Red Rocks (who also had an impeccable ride) is nothing to be ashamed of...Curlin did good. A better break, getting closer to Red Rocks down the backstretch, not going as wide, and the finish may very well have been different.
In any case, this horse is amazing

Nice post !! Wish others were as casual in their opinions . I'm done with the subject . Far too many in this forum ready to chop your legs off at the knees if you don't agree with them 100% .

[Cratos]

Originally Posted by joanied

They may change their minds for the Arc now...unless they try him on turf again and he wins...but to say his stallion value has gone down is wrong, or that he's not as much horse as before the Man O War, IMO, is also wrong.
Marshall Bennet, like anyone esle, is entitled to his opinion...most of us do not agree with it.
I beleive his value is now better than ever...he CAN run on grass, and if he were mine, I'd sure try him on artificial surfaces now...seems to me, since he did run very well on turf, he can sure navigate on poly...and a couple of wins on that surface will also increase his value as a stallion that has done it all. Even if he never runs on grass again, he prooved he can handle it. Getting beat by a horse like Red Rocks (who also had an impeccable ride) is nothing to be ashamed of...Curlin did good. A better break, getting closer to Red Rocks down the backstretch, not going as wide, and the finish may very well have been different.
In any case, this horse is amazing

A very good summation with keen insight on the running of the Man O'War.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by joanied

They may change their minds for the Arc now...unless they try him on turf again and he wins...but to say his stallion value has gone down is wrong, or that he's not as much horse as before the Man O War, IMO, is also wrong.
Marshall Bennet, like anyone esle, is entitled to his opinion...most of us do not agree with it.
I beleive his value is now better than ever...he CAN run on grass, and if he were mine, I'd sure try him on artificial surfaces now...seems to me, since he did run very well on turf, he can sure navigate on poly...and a couple of wins on that surface will also increase his value as a stallion that has done it all. Even if he never runs on grass again, he prooved he can handle it. Getting beat by a horse like Red Rocks (who also had an impeccable ride) is nothing to be ashamed of...Curlin did good. A better break, getting closer to Red Rocks down the backstretch, not going as wide, and the finish may very well have been different.
In any case, this horse is amazing

I agree.

[joanied]

Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett

Nice post !! Wish others were as casual in their opinions . I'm done with the subject . Far too many in this forum ready to chop your legs off at the knees if you don't agree with them 100% .

I think the rule of thumb here is that we all agree to disagree (whoever thought that one up was brilliant!!)
I thought for a few minutes before I posted, MB, because I did disagree with you. I don't think that race devalued him at all, but you (or anyone) can sure give their opinions without being well, castrated !!!
If everyone would just think a moment when they post a reply to someone they disagree with, or who's post they don't like, and put themselves in the other guys shoes (so to speak) maybe there wouldn't be so much name calling here...the very person that might reply to someone calling them and/or their post 'stupid', 'ridiculous', or use some other negative words, is probably going to feel just as angry, embarrassed or offended if someone posted that way to them
I don't know....but I have always been a beleiver in being considerate of the other person, no matter what.

Fact is, no one here is an expert in any way, shape or form, for the most part we're all just a bunch of folks that love horse racing, love Thoroughbreds, enjoy handicapping, are interested in breeding and the state of the racing industry, and the welfare of the horses that give us everything day in and day out. Some are owners, some work at the track ( or have in the past) or on breeding farms, some attend the races nearly every day...but none of that makes anyone an 'expert' or 'perfect'.

Okie-dokie...I'm off the soap box now and have to find out when HRTV will televise the Poker, Barbaro & Del Hcap.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett

All I'm saying is his value was diminished today.

How was his value diminished? If he was looked upon as one of the top dirt horses of the past number of years going into this TURF race, and he runs a very credible second on TURF, how was his value diminished, if his value was almost 100% DIRT based going into the race?

If anything, his value was ENHANCED by his excellent placing in this GRADE 1 turf event.

[Marshall Bennett]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

How was his value diminished? If he was looked upon as one of the top dirt horses of the past number of years going into this TURF race, and he runs a very credible second on TURF, how was his value diminished, if his value was almost 100% DIRT based going into the race?

If anything, his value was ENHANCED by his excellent placing in this GRADE 1 turf event.

Thats fine . Just take your place in line . I've been beat to death enough already over this subject in here . If there's enough of me left to swing at when its your turn . Go for it !!!!

[joanied]

Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett

Thats fine . Just take your place in line . I've been beat to death enough already over this subject in here . If there's enough of me left to swing at when its your turn . Go for it !!!!

Hey Marshall .... A Big HUG!!!

[Marshall Bennett]

Originally Posted by joanied

Hey Marshall .... A Big HUG!!!

Thanks !!

[joanied]

Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett

Thanks !!

[Shenanigans]

[QUOTE=PaceAdvantage]How was his value diminished? If he was looked upon as one of the top dirt horses of the past number of years going into this TURF race, and he runs a very credible second on TURF, how was his value diminished, if his value was almost 100% DIRT based going into the race?

If anything, his value was ENHANCED by his excellent placing in this GRADE 1 turf event.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly what he did. He enhanced his value. He certainly didn't harm his dirt reputation and his second place finish on the turf first time out has given him even more attention.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Marshall Bennett

Thats fine . Just take your place in line . I've been beat to death enough already over this subject in here .

Beat to death? Huh?

I offer some very logical counter-arguments to your theory and you call that being beat to death? Is there no room for debate on here anymore?

[Marshall Bennett]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Beat to death? Huh?

I offer some very logical counter-arguments to your theory and you call that being beat to death? Is there no room for debate on here anymore?

All I'm saying is you've basically repeated what countless others have said . His value WASN'T diminished . Okay fine , I'm outnumbered and wouldn't be the last time if I'm dead wrong ... and thats fine with me . I've tried to close the subject , ( even as WRONG as I may be ) but some ( yourself included ) can't resist hammering the stake in a bit deeper . As I said before , go for it , to be quite honest " boss man " I could really care less !!!

[cj]

Marshall,

I don't think his value was diminished.

[Marshall Bennett]

Originally Posted by cj

Marshall,

I don't think his value was diminished.

okay !!