Little Cliff almost sent to slaughter...

[HolyBull29]

OK fine. We can not prove Preciado was he last with the horse. He and teh owners did'nt send Cliff to a meat man and the did'nt know where he went.

I'll go with Kim Zito on this one. "There are people in this industry who still do nto give a damn" She knows how it works with horses and their papers and what trainers and owners know about their horses as do I being involved in that part of racing.

But ok for sake of ending this. Even though it was officially listed(call up and check.Even says so in article) the last time Cliff ran was under Preciado and LA Buzz stable(he was not claimed out of the race) they were not the last ones with the horse and maybe some nice women trying to save horses bought Cliff from them and then gave it away to a slaughter house. Preciado and Buzz know nothing about people who buy broken down horses for slaughter and that is is not a common practice at smaller tracks of getting rid of a broken down horse burden.

Last raced on March 1st for Preciado and Buzz stable
Was rescued just 10 days later on March 11th
That seems a quick turnaround to a slaughter house.
By the way horse rescuers do not have vans at these tarcks rescuing horses,thats why their are papers and foundations there for them to call up and get someone to pick up. I will say Meat men are THERE and everyone knows what they do with the horses.

Sorry to Preciado and LA Buzz stable for implementing you guys as the last owners and Trainer(Thoroughbred times owes you a apology too) Sorry guys got duped by a meat man.

[Observer]

I'm not going to join in on the arguement over who knew what in the Little Cliff saga. Luckily in this case, it worked out.

On a personal level, a partner and I years ago privately purchased a horse that simply was not working out as a racehorse. There is no way that trainer we bought from had any idea what we were going to do with the horse. Sometimes it does happen where the last listed trainer really does have no idea.

With that said, my reason here is to rip into Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel. I have no idea what personal issue this guy has against racing, but it has been made clear time and time again. The latest episode with a heavily twisted piece just sealed the deal.

I'm not against the reporting of how horses are still being sent to slaughter from American racetracks. Please, cover it, let the world know about these horrific acts that are going on.

Where the Real Sports piece failed was on many levels. For a person who knows nothing about racing, the program gave the impression that 100s of thoroughbreds were pulled from tracks to their deaths on a daily basis.

The piece gave no indication that individuals as well as the industry have been making efforts to improve the situation, going back to 1982 with the formation of the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation. Now, the choices for rescue are so much greater, but that doesn't mean efforts don't still need to be made. But you wouldn't know about the 100s of rescue organizations if you watched Real Sports.

Sure, a couple of rescue organizations were mentioned by Real Sports, but does anyone really remember the names of these two places??? Was it really so difficult for Real Sports to mention how people could help?? If you're going to rip apart the actions, and even make brief mention of safety nets .. why not take the extra step of giving people the opportunity to scribble down info on how to help. Don't pull on someone's emotions then leave them flat in a puddle of their tears. TELL ME HOW I CAN HELP!!!!!!!!!!

On the help end, at the very end of the segment when Gumbel & reporter Bernard Goldberg sat at Gumbel's desk going over the story, Goldberg seemed as if he accidently let the cat out of the bag and stumbled over how there is legislation in the works to ban the transportation of horses to Mexico and Canada for slaughter. TELL ME HOW I CAN HELP!!!!!!!!!

I understand this was a piece designed to expose the nasty little secret racing has been keeping for years, as if barely an effort has been made to change. But honestly, Goldberg didn't even seem familiar with the push to stop the transport of horses across the borders or at what stage it was at. Why not make mention of how the legislation failed to begin with by still allowing for the transport despite the closing of the three slaughter houses in America?????? The only way the viewer found out about the attempt to halt the transport was from the slip of Goldberg's tongue.

Also in the end-of-story rap session, Goldberg says how someone on the "Upper West Side of Manhattan" can not have a horse. What a load of bullshit!!!! It may not be easy to keep a horse, and a person will have to travel, but if someone really wanted a horse, they could still live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan and have a horse.

The videos were absolutely horrific. This was by design to pull at the viewers emotions. It shouldn't matter where the horse came from, whether it be the racetrack, someone's backyard, a riding school, etc. However, the average Real Sports viewer who probably knows little to nothing about racing was led to believe all those horses in the kill pens and at the plants were Thoroughbreds off the racetrack.

This kind of twisted reporting in the media simply needs to stop. I'm actually sorry that I was part of Gumbel's veiwing audience. But I just simply can not believe how this guy always seems to get it so wrong.

C'mon Bryant, stop being so twisted and TELL ME HOW I CAN HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HolyBull29]

Good piece Observer. I pretty much agree with what your saying. I do think the piece was more about what happens to the horses more than racing just sends out 100's all the time to die. But I guess everyone looks at things different. I mean yeah they could've DEF talked about all the foundations out there and what has been going on for almost two decades now of things changing and people now trying to take care of these horses. They could've also listed adresses,numbers,etc for people to call and donate or what have you.

I just think those videos were horrendous and I think we all know what went on before this was shown but geez they can not come up with a more humane way? Ridiculous and sad. And owner and trainers should be calling many foundations numbers first and foremost and double checking to see if a horse is pre set up for retirement before calling for any slaughter house pick up. Just my take.

[LA Buzz Stable]

www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3221369&posted=#1post3221369


Read through the posts. It was confirmed that the LA Buzz Stable did not have anything to do with the fate that Little Cliff faced.

[JWBurnie]

How much did your stable donate?



As an owner, I would invite a rule that required a percentage of all auction sale's and career earnings be held for the retirement of every TB. I know it’s a tough game and difficult to just break even, but each and every horse deserves nothing less. Many owners/breeders are making good money on horses and many have no intention of ever doing anything for them once their career and earning potential is past. Not right. The greed (owners, breeders, trainers, vet’s & track owners) in this game is amazing.

Originally Posted by LA Buzz Stable

www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3221369&posted=#1post3221369


Read through the posts. It was confirmed that the LA Buzz Stable did not have anything to do with the fate that Little Cliff faced.

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by LA Buzz Stable

www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3221369&posted=#1post3221369


Read through the posts. It was confirmed that the LA Buzz Stable did not have anything to do with the fate that Little Cliff faced.

I have a few questions:

Did you agree to give away Little Cliff, or did your trainer tell you that he got X amount of dollars for Little Cliff?

Who brokered the deal to sell Little Cliff to the meat man? Was it the trainer? Do you actually think the person who brokered the deal was duped?

[ryesteve]

Originally Posted by LA Buzz Stable

Read through the posts. It was confirmed that the LA Buzz Stable did not have anything to do with the fate that Little Cliff faced.

Unless of course you count negligence and ignorance...

[Citation33]

Yeah I agree. LA Buzz stable who much did you donate along with Zito and his wife after what you heard happened to your horse??

Also,who had the horse after you guys ran him? Or who did you give him to?

[Kelso]

Originally Posted by JWBurnie

The greed (owners, breeders, trainers, vet’s & track owners) in this game is amazing.

Diogenise, I have found your honest man.

[JWBurnie]

I'm not implying anything.....how much do you think Robert LaPenta donated to the Little Cliff? He made nearly $200k off him...he cared, right?

[HolyBull29]

Yeah he did care,that's why it says in the articles posted on this thread that the lady who saved him Diane Baker said,"Robert LaPenta and Zito sent very GENEROUS checks" for Little Cliff.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think it's important that all sides are heard in this thread, which is why I am putting up the text of LA Buzz's reply on the other forum....if LA Buzz has any objection, just say the word, and it's gone:

First of all LA Buzz Stable would like to thank the bloggers of the Chronicle Forum about your posts regarding Little Cliff. Without your posts, we would not have known about Little Cliff's awful ordeal. Since we CARE ABOUT OUR HORSES, we felt the necessity to find out the FACTS, as best we could, about how Little Cliff ended up at the direct to slaughter pen. Because there has been much finger pointing, half truths, implications, mistruths & suggestive connotations at the expense of the LA Buzz Stable, so that others can promote their own agenda, LA Buzz will no longer remain silent. It has been known for weeks, by both the Thoroughbred Times & by Ms. Rigoletto (Diana Baker), that WE DID NOT KNOW about this incident. Ms. Rigoletto has knowingly been playing both sides - you the bloggers, in order to bring her own agenda and individual importance to your attention, & us, the LA Buzz Stable, trusting that she would disclose what she knew. We are unwilling to allow her to distort the facts and slander us.

There is no justice when Ms. Rigoletto can get her editorials posted in the Thoroughbred Times, because of her relationship with Ed Derosa, the staff editor who wrote the original articles, and we to date have been unable to. LA Buzz Stable has found the online article, dated April 15th, quite unprofessional as it never states that this is the way Ms. Rigoletto thought things had occured. The article was worded in such a way as to confer blame on us. Kim Zito is quoted and we are named with the result that one would think that we decided to discard Little Cliff after he ran 7th place in his last of two races for us, because we thought he was useless. LA Buzz Stable finds both articles to be slanted and factually distorted.
These are the facts:

1) The rescue groups are very well aware of who the dealers & slaughterhouse people are. But instead of demanding cessation of this practice, all too often, the extent of their involvement is limited to promoting their own agenda, even if it means doing so at the expense of others.

2) There is no Zito farm that Little Cliff will be going to. A home has to be found for him. The one inch white sticker on the back of the foal papers listed Rerun's phone number.

3) Slaughter trucks are not allowed on Philadelphia's Parks premises. Ramon was not present at the time of Little Cliff's pick-up. There were no altercations.

4) To date, there had been no reason for horsemen & trainers to look at a horse's pedigree papers. Transferring of ownership papers occurs in the Horse ID Office and merely goes from the last trainer's file into the new trainer's file. It is common practice that the papers are signed by the Stall Superintendant. If any pertinent information needs to be attached to a horses pedigree papers (like a Coggins test) customarily those papers are left at the Horse ID Office and just attached. Ms. Rigoletto should be aware of that since she has told me that her husband used to train horses.

5) In claiming horses, often the claimed horse has problems, but if you're the owner when the horse breaks down then you're the one who gets blamed, regardless of how much care you put into your horse.

6) Following up on horses once owned every thirty days, as suggested by Ms. Rigoletto, is absurd. It would be an impossible task to expect an owner to do. Perhaps in some ideal world....

LA Buzz Stable cared much & still does care about Little Cliff's well being. LA Buzz did call Bill Landes of the Hermitage Farm, where Little Cliff was bred, to see if they would be able to take Little Cliff at their farm for the remainder of his life. Unfortunately, they were unable to. We never thought of calling the Zitos as we did not know about Kim Zito's involment with horse rescue.

LA Buzz Stable has had only good experience with our trainer and had no reason to doubt his judgment or sincerity when he informed us that he had a contact who had a local farm where we could visit Little Cliff whenever we wanted to. Only after Little Cliff had been picked up at the racetrack, did we find out about the sticker being attached to his racing papers which directed the last owner to contact Rerun.

LA Buzz Stable was in the process of trying to find out the whereabouts of Little Cliff when we came upon the article posted in this forum. The LA Buzz Stable CARES ABOUT OUR HORSES & STRONGLY CONDEMNS HORSE SLAUGHTER.

In the past few weeks, we have been working closely with Barbara Luna, who is in charge of the HBPA'S horse rescue initiative at Philadelphia, in order to insure that what happened to Little Cliff does not happen again by providing a safety net for both horsemen & trainers alike.

We have already spoken with other rescue people who would like very much to work with the HBPA office once the HBPA is granted a non-profit status. LA Buzz thinks the rescue people who rescued Little Cliff did a wonderful thing and we heartily thank them.

For those of you who are truly concerned about Philadelphia Park's retired horses, I urge you to call Barbara Luna to see what you can do to help or, at the very least, to make a donation. Upon the HBPA obtaining non-profit status the LA Buzz Stable will be happy to post where donations can be sent.

The LA Buzz Stable

[PaceAdvantage]

It's good to see some clarification of what I stated earlier in this thread, which was that these papers are filed in Horse ID and not carried around by trainers or owners:

4) To date, there had been no reason for horsemen & trainers to look at a horse's pedigree papers. Transferring of ownership papers occurs in the Horse ID Office and merely goes from the last trainer's file into the new trainer's file. It is common practice that the papers are signed by the Stall Superintendant. If any pertinent information needs to be attached to a horses pedigree papers (like a Coggins test) customarily those papers are left at the Horse ID Office and just attached. Ms. Rigoletto should be aware of that since she has told me that her husband used to train horses.

[FunkyMonkey]

Why are all track operators not required to provide a service to all horsepeople that assists them in finding suitable homes for all horses who are being retired from racing...besides cost what other objection could there be? As a society we make choices all the time, my thinking is that if the cost structure is such that this additional burden would prevent people from running racetracks then I say shut them all down and lets move on...just my 2cents worth.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by FunkyMonkey

Why are all track operators not required to provide a service to all horsepeople that assists them in finding suitable homes for all horses who are being retired from racing...besides cost what other objection could there be? As a society we make choices all the time, my thinking is that if the cost structure is such that this additional burden would prevent people from running racetracks then I say shut them all down and lets move on...just my 2cents worth.

It's hard to break folks of their habits....even bad ones...

All of this publicity is a good thing. It will make trainers and owners think twice as they prepare to jettison a horse from their stable.