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11-19-2019, 05:51 PM
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#526
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
For what purpose? If horses aren't racing why test them?
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Basically every drug testing regime that anyone considers serious in sports tests athletes out of competition. Not all performance enhancers are given day of the race (e.g., the steroids that Big Brown was on), and out of competition testing also diminishes the effect of masking agents (including Lasix, of course), which are intended to flush any drugs out of the system before a post-competition test.
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11-19-2019, 05:51 PM
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#527
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Sure, but tracks don't want that as fields are short enough as it is. They turn a blind eye to all but the most obvious cases.
Claiming races need to go. You want to sell your horse, do it privately. If we really care about the horses, playing games with the claiming system is never going to be a good look.
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Your comment implies that the problem is mostly with the claimers or low level horses. Is it true that claimers breakdown more than other types?
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Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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11-19-2019, 05:56 PM
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#528
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Your comment implies that the problem is mostly with the claimers or low level horses. Is it true that claimers breakdown more than other types?
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I don't have the data to know, but my experience would lead me to believe that is true. I wouldn't be shocked if that data proved me wrong, but I'd be surprised.
So do you think the claiming game is good for horse safety overall?
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11-19-2019, 07:15 PM
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#530
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I don't have the data to know, but my experience would lead me to believe that is true. I wouldn't be shocked if that data proved me wrong, but I'd be surprised.
So do you think the claiming game is good for horse safety overall?
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I don't know but I did read where Indiana Grand had one of the lowest fatality rates of any track. Are they running claimers there? I also believe that most of the fatalities at Santa Anita were not claiming horses. I would certainly be swayed by stats showing a strong correlation between race level and fatalities.
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Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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11-19-2019, 07:26 PM
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#531
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob60566
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Thanks for posting the link.
My comments were made from a viewpoint of whether or not a horse is physically sound enough to withstand the rigors of racing on raceday. While out-of-competition testing might be a good (albeit expensive) step for racing to take it still doesn't answer the question of whether a horse is physically sound enough to race.
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Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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11-19-2019, 07:50 PM
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#532
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Vancouver Island
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Thanks for posting the link.
My comments were made from a viewpoint of whether or not a horse is physically sound enough to withstand the rigors of racing on raceday. While out-of-competition testing might be a good (albeit expensive) step for racing to take it still doesn't answer the question of whether a horse is physically sound enough to race.
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This should help for that
Official veterinarians, employed by the racetrack or the state racing commission, determine much of a horse’s race-day routine. These veterinarians are in charge of confirming that all horses are sound to race, and to do that they examine horses several times on race day.
https://thehorse.com/171178/the-race-day-routine/
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11-19-2019, 08:05 PM
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#533
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob60566
Would it be to much trouble to implement out of competition testing at major tracks in 2020.?
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Already happening in Pa
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11-19-2019, 08:35 PM
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#534
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
I also believe that most of the fatalities at Santa Anita were not claiming horses.
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16 of the first 30 were claimers.
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11-19-2019, 09:16 PM
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#535
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob60566
This should help for that
Official veterinarians, employed by the racetrack or the state racing commission, determine much of a horse’s race-day routine. These veterinarians are in charge of confirming that all horses are sound to race, and to do that they examine horses several times on race day.
https://thehorse.com/171178/the-race-day-routine/
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Thanks again. It makes one wonder how a hurt horse could ever make it to the starting gate.
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Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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11-19-2019, 09:19 PM
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#536
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AskinHaskin
16 of the first 30 were claimers.
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Thanks. The second half of the equation would be the number of starters that were claimers and non-claimers.
__________________
Best writing advice ever received: Never use a long word when a diminutive one will suffice.
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11-19-2019, 09:31 PM
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#537
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Vancouver Island
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyC
Thanks again. It makes one wonder how a hurt horse could ever make it to the starting gate.
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Uncontrolled drug use goes long way.
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11-19-2019, 10:41 PM
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#538
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 487
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Of the post-Mongolian Groom list of 37
now 20 were claiming horses. Not necessarily entered in a claiming race on the fateful day.
And wild speculation would suggest that considerably more than 54% of all starters at SA during the same time period would qualify under this broad umbrella of claiming horses.
(the only way to qualify for some starter allowance races is to have at some point been a claiming horse, etc.)
Just 12 of the 37 last raced on a SA main track labeled "fast"
(Same was true of just two of the initial 17 to die at SA from Dec. 26 through the end of March)
Last edited by AskinHaskin; 11-19-2019 at 10:48 PM.
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11-20-2019, 12:26 AM
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#539
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
Basically every drug testing regime that anyone considers serious in sports tests athletes out of competition. Not all performance enhancers are given day of the race (e.g., the steroids that Big Brown was on), and out of competition testing also diminishes the effect of masking agents (including Lasix, of course), which are intended to flush any drugs out of the system before a post-competition test.
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First, steroids were legal then, and second, Lasix doesn’t mask. Please go read up on it instead of continuing to put out this misinformed opinion.
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11-20-2019, 09:28 AM
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#540
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
First, steroids were legal then, and second, Lasix doesn’t mask. Please go read up on it instead of continuing to put out this misinformed opinion.
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Fager, THE WORLD ANTI-DOPING AGENCY SAYS LASIX MASKS. They have credibility. You are some anonymous person on the Internet. So I am going to repeat the TRUTH as long as there are deniers like you out there.
As for steroids, they are illegal now, and it's perfectly obvious that you would need out of competition testing to enforce the ban. Which was my point.
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