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Old 11-08-2021, 10:37 AM   #166
Andy Asaro
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Why did they not see the the horse being led out of the front of the gate (He did not break through the gate)? Maybe they were watching cartoons.

At some point the CHRB needs to be held accountable because after years of being a ship of fools they have no credibility. And they embarrassed California Racing on the biggest stage.

Stunning incompetence.


https://www.indexjournal.com/sports/...0a60dcbd2.html
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:05 AM   #167
dilanesp
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Why did they not see the the horse being led out of the front of the gate (He did not break through the gate)? Maybe they were watching cartoons.

At some point the CHRB needs to be held accountable because after years of being a ship of fools they have no credibility. And they embarrassed California Racing on the biggest stage.

Stunning incompetence.


https://www.indexjournal.com/sports/...0a60dcbd2.html
I saw the same thing. Probably neither me nor the stewards were looking at the assistant starter. We were looking at a horse stumbling badly out of the gate and assumed he broke through, because this is what it is 99.99% of the time. We were wrong, but it's an easy mistake to make.
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:07 AM   #168
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While the other sports are wagered on, the leagues have nothing to do with the rules and regulations regarding betting.
That doesn't matter though. There are uncorrectable situations in racing too. Our DQ threads here are full of them.
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:08 AM   #169
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I saw the same thing. Probably neither me nor the stewards were looking at the assistant starter. We were looking at a horse stumbling badly out of the gate and assumed he broke through, because this is what it is 99.99% of the time. We were wrong, but it's an easy mistake to make.
You really should stop
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:10 AM   #170
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I saw the same thing. Probably neither me nor the stewards were looking at the assistant starter. We were looking at a horse stumbling badly out of the gate and assumed he broke through, because this is what it is 99.99% of the time. We were wrong, but it's an easy mistake to make.
Completely disagree with the notion that it was an easy mistake to make.
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:20 AM   #171
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You really should stop
I don't complain when you continue to badmouth Yibir!

Last edited by dilanesp; 11-08-2021 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:45 AM   #172
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It doesn’t really matter where or how the mistake was made. What’s important is that the rules as written were followed, and I don’t see anything stating otherwise. It may be a bad rule or poorly conceived but the alternative of giving latitude to create rules on the fly is a much worse alternative to what happened. The last thing that anybody should want is that alternative
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:53 AM   #173
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There's no way for me to say this politely. (So I won't.)

I call bullshit on the idea that Horseplayers should just shut up and bet (be ok with the uncorrectable being part of racing.)

Look. The CHRB made the effort to implement a rule benefiting owners, riders, and trainers that gives the stewards discretion to have mistakenly scratched horses run for purse money only.

If the CHRB can do that for horsemen:

The CHRB should step up and do the same thing for Horseplayers.

Implement a rule that allows the stewards to restore mistakenly scratched horses back into the tote.

Imo, it's the right thing to do going forward from an integrity of the game perspective.



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Old 11-08-2021, 11:57 AM   #174
Andy Asaro
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Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
There's no way for me to say this politely. (So I won't.)

I call bullshit on the idea that Horseplayers should just shut up and bet (be ok with the uncorrectable being part of racing.)

Look. The CHRB made the effort to implement a rule benefiting owners, riders, and trainers that gives the stewards discretion to have mistakenly scratched horses run for purse money only.

If the CHRB can do that for horsemen:

The CHRB should step up and do the same thing for Horseplayers.

Implement a rule that allows the stewards to restore mistakenly scratched horses back into the tote.

Imo, it's the right thing to do going forward from an integrity of the game perspective.



-jp

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Old 11-08-2021, 12:46 PM   #175
dilanesp
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Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
There's no way for me to say this politely. (So I won't.)

I call bullshit on the idea that Horseplayers should just shut up and bet (be ok with the uncorrectable being part of racing.)

Look. The CHRB made the effort to implement a rule benefiting owners, riders, and trainers that gives the stewards discretion to have mistakenly scratched horses run for purse money only.

If the CHRB can do that for horsemen:

The CHRB should step up and do the same thing for Horseplayers.

Implement a rule that allows the stewards to restore mistakenly scratched horses back into the tote.

Imo, it's the right thing to do going forward from an integrity of the game perspective.



-jp

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Just because this rule didn't benefit certain horseplayers who had the on their tickets doesn't mean this rule doesn't benefit horseplayers.

There are other horseplayers (say, those who were on track and had to stand in long lines to bet) who might very well benefit from a rule against "unscratches".

Gamblers are full of results-oriented thinking. This is just a version of it- "it cost this one group of horseplayers money, therefore it must be bad and anti-horseplayer". No, it isn't bad and it isn't anti-horseplayer.
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Old 11-08-2021, 12:56 PM   #176
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There are other horseplayers (say, those who were on track and had to stand in long lines to bet) who might very well benefit from a rule against "unscratches".
So your lawyerly opinion is that if a horse is scratched incorrectly, those that benefit because they have the horses that remain, should not lose this benefit if it is deemed correct that the incorrectly scratched horse be allowed to return to the field for wagering purposes.

I tried to help you earlier today with some advice. I offer it again. Stop burying yourself.
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Old 11-08-2021, 01:13 PM   #177
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So your lawyerly opinion is that if a horse is scratched incorrectly, those that benefit because they have the horses that remain, should not lose this benefit if it is deemed correct that the incorrectly scratched horse be allowed to return to the field for wagering purposes.

I tried to help you earlier today with some advice. I offer it again. Stop burying yourself.
First of all, stop with the ad hominem attacks. Seriously. Stop. They just make you look like a jerk- and by the way, I've heard from several people in the industry who think very poorly of you for precisely those reasons.

Learn to say what you think without personally attacking people. It's a skill. It's a skill that shows intelligence, and tact, and a positive personality. You need to learn it, and frankly, I am surprised you haven't, because most people with prominent, public facing jobs understand this.

On the merits, my opinion is this:

"Unscratching" would create massive new problems. It would create incredible confusion as bettors don't know if the horse is in or out of the race. The announcement might not be heard in the bowels of the racetrack, at simulcast outlets, or online by players who are getting limited information. And unlike a scratch, where everyone (except players of certain horizontal wagers, which I will talk about in a second) gets their money back, in the case of an unscratch, you can have the situation of people betting horse X not knowing horse Y is still in the race. That's just a disgustingly bad situation.

It could also lead to shenanigans. If someone has the power to scratch, and unscratch, a savvy insider who paid off the right people could use that to increase the odds of his horse, by causing people to get refunds of their tickets.

Indeed, on Friday, had the been unscratched, there were almost certainly people in the Del Mar grandstand and in other locations who would have already received refunds on their bet and had either passed the race or bet other horses. Had the horse been unscratched, those people would have been on Twitter and on this forum and everywhere else telling us THEY got screwed. And they would have received the same sympathy the horizontal bettors are now getting.

You know what, Andy? There's no perfect rule here. There's no rule that you or me or anyone else can come up with that can perfectly deal with every unforeseen situation. There's no rule that won't leave some group of gamblers unhappy. That doesn't mean the CHRB rule is anti-horseplayer. At worse, it protects some horseplayers in some situations while leaving the people who bet horizontal bets on Friday out in the cold.

And that's why the "ALL" race (which I believe your jurisdiction can declare when a race is moved off the turf) is such an elegant solution. It protects the horizontal bettors while NOT getting into a situation that can lead to all sorts of shenanigans as horses get pulled out of the race and then get put back in. It's a good solution. California should implement it, at least when a favorite gets removed from a race late.

But the last thing we want to do is allow "unscratches". You won't be hurt- you have the ability to go on nyrabets or whatever platform you use and you have perfect, up to the minute information due to your job. But for the stiff in line in the grandstand, it could result in a terrible injustice.
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Old 11-08-2021, 01:51 PM   #178
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"Unscratching" would create massive new problems. It would create incredible confusion as bettors don't know if the horse is in or out of the race.
but it's not incredible confusion to have made bets that win only to have them not really win.
So you spent hours upon hours handicapping, and you jump in head first with that thousand dollars you've saved for a big weekend of horse racing.
My god you killed it. you were cashing tickets left and right.
what a way to end the first day.


Winners = ass****ed losers
I sincerely feel aweful for anyone that was cost thousands of $ in lost winnings.
So the new norm at the racetrack is that you can't even cash tickets on the selected winners.
yeah that will go over good with horseplayers.
if I can't be paid out for selecting winners, will they start paying me for selecting losers?
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Old 11-08-2021, 01:59 PM   #179
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On the merits, my opinion is this:

"Unscratching" would create massive new problems. It would create incredible confusion as bettors don't know if the horse is in or out of the race.
NO.

After restoring a mistakenly scratched horse to the tote:

A simple glance at the toteboard (or TV monitor) is all that's required to know a horse is (still) a live betting interest.

You can't tell me on track bettors aren't constantly looking at the odds and the will-pays on the toteboard or TV monitors. (Every on track bettor knows where to look.)

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Originally Posted by dilanesp View Post
It could also lead to shenanigans. If someone has the power to scratch, and unscratch, a savvy insider who paid off the right people could use that to increase the odds of his horse, by causing people to get refunds of their tickets.
Again NO.

If you are worried about unscrupulous stewards abusing restoration of mistakenly scratched horses to the tote you are basically admitting racing already has a HUGE integrity problem.

Stewards have the ability to alter the finish positions of horses in any race as they see fit.

What is to stop unscrupulous stewards from abusing their ability to alter the original order of finish?

Imo, nothing.

I may see stewards as human and subject to human error (but not unscrupulous.)

But if unscrupulous stewards were truly a concern, I would argue we need to take away their ability to alter the original order of finish.



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Old 11-08-2021, 02:32 PM   #180
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