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Old 10-02-2021, 09:03 PM   #16
the little guy
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I'm pretty sure one of the reasons he stopped writing for the Wash. Post was that a few years ago the Post started allowing anybody to comment on their stories and the comments appeared below the story in their online edition.

the public being the public - there were quite a few idiots who made idiotic comments about him and his picks - and he didn't appreciate that at all - the fact that the Post allowed all of these comments to appear below his column



.
That's inaccurate
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Old 10-02-2021, 09:45 PM   #17
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That's inaccurate
I was looking for the laughing emoji at the end of his post but I couldn't find it.
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Old 10-03-2021, 07:08 AM   #18
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Very much agree on Beyer belonging somewhere. He could go in on the strength of EITHER his handicapping contribution OR his Washington Post journalism.

There has been some discussion of these type of issues with Asmussen's passing of Dale Baird for wins, and with Fairmount/Fan Duel getting some attention (St. Louis Derby) thereby bringing talk of Dave Gall in the mix.

I would love to see an area of the NMRHOF that celebrates the "small track" Hall of Famers. The ones who have made huge contributions for generations of local fans, though not national ones.
There should be some recognition for writers like Beyer and riders like Gall - they both had a huge influence on me when I became a horseplayer in the mid 1980s. Beyer's Picking Winners and Betting Thoroughbreds by Steve Davidowitz were the first two handicapping books I bought, after getting transferred to Scott Air Force base in 1985 and becoming a regular patron of nearby Fairmount Park.

Beyer's books and articles were "academic" in quality, for a sport, as Thask points out, filled with charlatans and crooks. It was amazing to be able to quantify the performances of the horses with speed figures, and gain insight to juicy winners down the road with accurate trip notes. I never met another competent handicapper prior to 2000 without Beyer coming up in the discussion early and often.

To watch Gall ride winner after winner at Fairmount was also an amazing opportunity to understand the art of excellent riding. He was a "man among boys", at least on dirt, and according to his obituary article on Bloodhorse never claimed foul on over 40,000 mounts. Wow. A true "pay the winners" attitude.
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Old 10-03-2021, 08:01 AM   #19
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I was looking for the laughing emoji at the end of his post but I couldn't find it.
I'm guessing the posters recollection probably came from reading this article:

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/r...r-rebel-cause/

i.e. "The advent of the “here comes everybody” nature of the Internet further opened a Pandora's Box of malevolence toward Beyer.
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Old 10-03-2021, 09:32 AM   #20
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Did he pass?
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Old 10-03-2021, 10:19 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by MJC922 View Post
I'm guessing the posters recollection probably came from reading this article:

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/r...r-rebel-cause/

i.e. "The advent of the “here comes everybody” nature of the Internet further opened a Pandora's Box of malevolence toward Beyer.

yes, there is also this from that link:


"The critics, hidden behind their computers, came in waves, and after getting a taste of them, Beyer stopped paying attention."


quote from Beyer:


"My guess is plenty of journalists feel the same way,” he said. “People lurking in anonymity saying, 'This guy is an idiot.' I have my own standards. I had a sports editor who held me to high standards, a newspaper that held me to high standards"


quote from Crist:


“There is this inexplicable hostility toward him that made my chest hurt every time I saw these things,” Crist said.


but I would admit that my presumption was more of a guess than anything else


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Old 10-03-2021, 10:21 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by MJC922 View Post
I'm guessing the posters recollection probably came from reading this article:

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/r...r-rebel-cause/

i.e. "The advent of the “here comes everybody” nature of the Internet further opened a Pandora's Box of malevolence toward Beyer.
Except if you actually read the article, I don't understand how Half Smoke could come away with that recollection:

Quote:
The critics, hidden behind their computers, came in waves, and after getting a taste of them, Beyer stopped paying attention.

“My guess is plenty of journalists feel the same way,” he said. “People lurking in anonymity saying, 'This guy is an idiot.' I have my own standards. I had a sports editor who held me to high standards, a newspaper that held me to high standards. I think a lot of people in the sport viewed me as a knocker, as a negativist. There's always been a lot of stuff in horse racing in terms of honesty issues, drug issues. The game is negative, and if you're a journalist you're supposed to write about it.”
So after reading that, I come away with the notion Beyer didn't really give a shit about the negative stuff people wrote about him in the comments section. Because he just ignored it after a period of time.
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Old 10-03-2021, 10:24 AM   #23
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Did he pass?
no
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Old 10-03-2021, 10:28 AM   #24
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I bought all his books and he had me making speed figures when I was in my early 20's. I remember when I found out he was selling his figures to the Racing Forum in the early 90's I had a complete meltdown. I took all the notebooks I had with track variants, and all my saved charts and Racing Forums and spent the day burning them.



I think my most memorable Beyer moment was the Breeder's Cup 1986. I was watching Jeff Segal and Andrew Beyer handicap the card, had a UHF channel in SoCal that covered racing to a small extent. I had made my selections before watching the show. I think I had the same horse on top that Andrew did, who didn't agree with anything that Segal had to say. I remember thinking how I had finally arrived and Jeff Segal was an idiot.


I went out and "bet with confidence" as Beyer would say. That confidence was miss directed, Andy and I managed to come up with only one short priced winner. I think Segal had 3, including Skywalker in the Classic.
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Old 10-03-2021, 11:06 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage View Post
Except if you actually read the article, I don't understand how Half Smoke could come away with that recollection:

So after reading that, I come away with the notion Beyer didn't really give a shit about the negative stuff people wrote about him in the comments section. Because he just ignored it after a period of time.

Clearly at some point it was a 'thing' otherwise why mention it? I do agree though it's a big leap to point to that as a specific reason for retirement. At best it may have been a tangential one of many reasons. The obvious reason from what I can glean is he reached retirement age and he already did pretty much everything anyone could hope to accomplish anyway, might as well put the time into lower-stress, figure research, travel etc. If / when he writes anything I'm sure we'll see it somewhere but I suspect it's probably a really nice change of pace that he doesn't necessarily have to do that anymore. I give anyone credit who puts their opinions out there in public, selections etc, that can be a very high-stress thing to do and some people may accept the criticism better than others. Not to mention the more high-profile you become the more people are looking for any possible way to tear you down.
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Old 10-03-2021, 11:57 AM   #26
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whether you like Beyer numbers or not, Andrew Beyer was the best thing that happened for the horse racing business in the past 50 years. aside from being an aid to betting on a horse race, it also helped those that claim or buy and sell racehorses.

i have personally benefited from his numbers, and I have benefited from handicapping with pace figures the past 15 years. because of this board, i started using CJ's numbers which happen to be excellent. his numbers are now what is used in Timeform. the real good part of his numbers are that he carries more tracks than anyone else i believe and his numbers are as good if not better than anything else. one of the main reasons that CJ's numbers are so good is that he spends time incorporating runups into his numbers and he adds other personal touches to those numbers.
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Old 10-03-2021, 12:35 PM   #27
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Clearly at some point it was a 'thing' otherwise why mention it? I do agree though it's a big leap to point to that as a specific reason for retirement. At best it may have been a tangential one of many reasons. The obvious reason from what I can glean is he reached retirement age and he already did pretty much everything anyone could hope to accomplish anyway, might as well put the time into lower-stress, figure research, travel etc. If / when he writes anything I'm sure we'll see it somewhere but I suspect it's probably a really nice change of pace that he doesn't necessarily have to do that anymore. I give anyone credit who puts their opinions out there in public, selections etc, that can be a very high-stress thing to do and some people may accept the criticism better than others. Not to mention the more high-profile you become the more people are looking for any possible way to tear you down.
My guess it had zero effect.

I don't know the man personally, but someone who does already commented in this thread that the theory was incorrect.

Let's leave it at that and not turn this thread into another mess.
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Old 10-03-2021, 07:24 PM   #28
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Clearly at some point it was a 'thing' otherwise why mention it? I do agree though it's a big leap to point to that as a specific reason for retirement. At best it may have been a tangential one of many reasons. The obvious reason from what I can glean is he reached retirement age and he already did pretty much everything anyone could hope to accomplish anyway, might as well put the time into lower-stress, figure research, travel etc. If / when he writes anything I'm sure we'll see it somewhere but I suspect it's probably a really nice change of pace that he doesn't necessarily have to do that anymore. I give anyone credit who puts their opinions out there in public, selections etc, that can be a very high-stress thing to do and some people may accept the criticism better than others. Not to mention the more high-profile you become the more people are looking for any possible way to tear you down.
He retired at age 73. I think that's a full career.

Beyer is a legend. He changed how horse racing was viewed, analyzed, and handicapped. I can't think of anyone who wasn't an owner, trainer, jockey or horse (ha) who had a bigger influence on the game he covered. And of course, he was a fierce advocate for the horseplayer.

That's his legacy. Racing needs someone like him now to somehow ignite and intrigue a new generation of horseplayers the way his books and articles did for many of us years ago.
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Old 10-03-2021, 11:28 PM   #29
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He retired at age 73. I think that's a full career.

Beyer is a legend. He changed how horse racing was viewed, analyzed, and handicapped. I can't think of anyone who wasn't an owner, trainer, jockey or horse (ha) who had a bigger influence on the game he covered. And of course, he was a fierce advocate for the horseplayer.

That's his legacy. Racing needs someone like him now to somehow ignite and intrigue a new generation of horseplayers the way his books and articles did for many of us years ago.
Absolutely, castaway01.
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Old 10-04-2021, 02:04 AM   #30
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__________



I loved his line in one of his books - I can't remember which one

but he wrote about dropping out of Harvard to bet horses

he skipped his English Lit class one day

and he wrote something like:


"I didn't know much about the "Canterbury Tales." But I knew a lot about some $5,000 claimers at Suffolk Downs."



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In 1975’s “Picking Winners” Andy writes about skipping his final exam in Chaucer at Harvard, basically “I didn’t know much about Chaucer, but I did know something about Amberoid’s chances in the Belmont Stakes. Although I blew a $12,000 education, I did collect a $13 payoff on Amberoid, reducing my losses for the day to $11,987.

Maybe the best example of self deprecating humor I’ve ever seen. I laughed so hard I could barely breathe.

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