California Racing is dead to me. New whip rule final straw

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Andy Asaro

--Jockey Mario Gutierrez was issued a warning for using his crop seven times while aboard Dylans Wild Cat in the fourth race on Oct. 2. Dylans Wild Cat won by half-a-length. It was a majority decision as steward Luis Jauregui voted for a $100 fine.

--Apprentice jockey Alexis Centeno was issued a waring for using his crop seven times while aboard Devils Dance in the seventh race on Oct. 2. Devils Dance finished second. Steward Luis Jauregui was a dissenting opinion on the ruling.

--Jockey Victor Espinoza was fined $100 for using his riding crop nine times while aboard Lady Noguez in the fifth race on Oct. 2. Lady Noguez finished second by a head. The horse won $7,600 by virtue of the second-place finish. The standard jockey payment would have been $760.

--Jockey Juan Hernandez was issued a warning for using his riding crop seven times while aboard Hot Pastrami during the seventh race on Oct. 3. Hot Pastrami finished seventh.

--Jockey Juan Hernandez was fined $100 for using his riding crop three times in succession without giving his mount, Big Barrel, a chance to respond. Big Barrel finished fourth, earning a purse of $1,760. The standard jockey payment would have been $176.

--Jockey Heriberto Figueroa was issued a warning for using his riding crop in the cocked position on the shoulder of Silver Summer in the sixth race on Oct. 3. It appeared as if the problem occurred when he was trying to transfer the crop from his right hand to the left. Silver Summer finished second.

--Jockey Heriberto Figueroa was fined $100 for using his riding crop nine times while aboard Bob and Jackie in the City of Hope Mile, the eighth race, on Oct. 3. Bob and Jackie finished third and earned $24,000. The standard jockey payment for that purse would have been $2,400.

--Apprentice jockey Alexis Centeno was suspended four days (Oct. 11, 12, 16 and 17) for his ride about Run Snappy in the seventh race on Oct. 3. The stewards believed that Run Snappy crossed over without sufficient clearance in the turn causing interference. Run Snappy won the race by 4 ¾ lengths. Centeno also received a careless riding suspension for a race on Aug. 7, so an extra day was added to what would normally be a three-day suspension.

Almost starts to look like they are over-whipping on purpose, to show how not whipping doesn't work.
7 times
7 times
9 times, etc. Jocks in Hong Kong and Europe don't have to do that. I guess our horses just need more *encouragement*????


I know some people may have enjoyed watching Rachel Alexandra get flailed on by Borel in the Woodward. Many of us were cringing, and we are fans and 'understand' the sport. This is a champion horse, how much reminding and correcting do you think she needed at that point in her career???

1-2-3 stikes is enough. And, if a horse is drifting it's often because they are getting leg weary and tired. I guess we should have whippers standing behind humans in marathons, just so that when they can barely take another step, someone can *remind them* that they need to step it up.

Maybe if they have no whipping for a while, some of these guys will learn how to bring it down a notch thru practice, then maybe let them have a whip again once they get the hang of not absuing it. Practice makes perfect.

[NJDfan1711]

Originally Posted by clicknow

No love from me for the whipper guys and stick jockeys. I'll go with the finesse riders.

A good jockey is like a good chess player. It's the ability to know, even by listening to a horse's respiration, how much fuel they have left in the tank, what the other riders/horses are doing, predict then react.

At the top? A rider’s ability to communicate with their horse......an empathic jockey.




"Urging" doesn't include flogging them 30 times like Espinoza did to AP, or John Velazquez (handed a suspension by Royal Ascot stewards for over-whipping as he would have been given anywhere in Europe or Hong Kong) when he knew it was against the rules.......all while the world watches.

A tap as a reminder to change leads or using a whip in an emergency/dangerous situation is one thing-----whipping a horse over 5-7 times when they are already giving their all....not so much.


My education includes a good friend who rides and jumps "Native American style".... bareback and no reins/bridle. She knows how to get a horse to do what she wants and taught me what finesse is, and about maintaining an even and constant contact with the horse under you.




And others who think diffrently will pick up that slack because they are on the verge of walking away from the status quo that U.S. racing insists upon.

I guess you can say that means there's something for everyone.


If U.S. horse racing does the right things, we may actually get to witness who the best trainers are (sans druggers and cheaters) and who the best jockeys are (sans whips, less whips).

On the one hand I strongly agree with you in that a jockey can be great based solely on his ability to "communicate" with the horses he rides on, as well as other intangibles like knowing when to make a move in a race - I believe these are a few of the reasons why Irad Ortiz has become one of the top jockeys in the world of late - but on the other hand I strongly disagree that whips are regularly overused by jockeys and that they should be eliminated completely. I think the great jockeys are the ones who are able to combine the intangibles discussed earlier, along means of physical force (i.e. a whip), when needed.

Also, there are many jockeys who rarely even make contact with the horse when using the whip - it's not uncommon at all to crack the whip and produce sound without striking the horse in order to stimulate the horse and get it motivated and responsive. Beyond that, whips have been re-designed over the years to make them less hurtful/impactful as well, making them more of a tool for command and control, rather than an instrument for abuse and intimidation.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by NJDfan1711

On the one hand I strongly agree with you in that a jockey can be great based solely on his ability to "communicate" with the horses he rides on, as well as other intangibles like knowing when to make a move in a race - I believe these are a few of the reasons why Irad Ortiz has become one of the top jockeys in the world of late - but on the other hand I strongly disagree that whips are regularly overused by jockeys and that they should be eliminated completely. I think the great jockeys are the ones who are able to combine the intangibles discussed earlier, along means of physical force (i.e. a whip), when needed.

Also, there are many jockeys who rarely even make contact with the horse when using the whip - it's not uncommon at all to crack the whip and produce sound without striking the horse in order to stimulate the horse and get it motivated and responsive. Beyond that, whips have been re-designed over the years to make them less hurtful/impactful as well, making them more of a tool for command and control, rather than an instrument for abuse and intimidation.

I also don't really disagree with anything you say.

We know more about whips than laypersons and perhaps we shouldn't veer too far to extremes..

I do know that you can't have Borel flailing away on a Champion like Rachel Alexandra in a big race, and you can't have Espinoza flailing away on a triple crown horse 30x like American Pharoah.

I mean, you can, but don't expect perceptions, even w/in the racing community, to cotton to that. Let's not even talk about outside of it.

I just want racing to survive so I can continue to enjoy it. Maybe adopt some euro or hong kong standards.

[Waquoit]

I never heard a "layperson" complain about the whip in my life.

[ronsmac]

The jockey on the Melbourne Cup winner might have been banned for life if he were riding in California. He whipped his horse 14 or 15 times. Those who bet on him aren't complaining.

[Onesome]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

The jockey on the Melbourne Cup winner might have been banned for life if he were riding in California. He whipped his horse 14 or 15 times. Those who bet on him aren't complaining.

It was the runnerup that was ruled excessive with the whip, cost him most of his earnings and a 2 week vacation

"Stewards have made good on their promise to heavily penalise jockeys who overuse the whip with jockey Kerrin McEvoy fined a whopping $50,000 and outed for 13 meetings for his whip use in the Melbourne Cup.

McEvoy pleaded guilty to the charge after it was found he hit his mount Tiger Moth 13 times before the 100-metre mark and 21 times in total. He is not permitted to strike his mount more than five times before the 100-metre mark.

McEvoy's cut for a second-placed finish in the Melbourne Cup was $55,000."

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by Onesome

It was the runnerup that was ruled excessive with the whip, cost him most of his earnings and a 2 week vacation

"Stewards have made good on their promise to heavily penalise jockeys who overuse the whip with jockey Kerrin McEvoy fined a whopping $50,000 and outed for 13 meetings for his whip use in the Melbourne Cup.

McEvoy pleaded guilty to the charge after it was found he hit his mount Tiger Moth 13 times before the 100-metre mark and 21 times in total. He is not permitted to strike his mount more than five times before the 100-metre mark.

McEvoy's cut for a second-placed finish in the Melbourne Cup was $55,000."

Hopefully bettors don’t have to give back any money if they bet him to place.

[Dahoss9698]

Will be interesting to watch the races at Del Mar the next few days with east coast riders there for the stakes.

Have to think they aren’t going to change their whipping style for a few days and will just accept the fines and or suspension.